Legal fund for Reviewers/Erin?

[tmtomh]

FYI I am now banned from Tekton facebook page even though he claimed he was not going to let me post there.

Wow, it’s almost as if his behavior is erratic and dishonest!

 

[Bruce Morgen]

I really didn't quite get just how much of a fool Mr. Alexander actually is until I read these bullet points from the sales page of his $1900/pair "Perfect SET" speakers:

• The Perfect SET – designed and optimized for ‘single-ended triode’
• 8 Ohm impedance – for optimum ‘single-ended triode’ performance​

Oh, and BTW, his patent seems to be nothing more or other than word salad.

THE PERFECT SET

 

[No one who matters]

FYI I am now banned from Tekton facebook page even though he claimed he was not going to let me post there.

My man, IMHO it’s time to ignore this ignorant goddamned fool and move on. Life’s too short to spend it with emotionally broken simpletons.

You’ve won this along with Erin and the broader community of rational humans. Now it’s only over when you and everyone else disengages with him. Silence is what’s in order.

Don’t give him or this thing any more energy - or oxygen.

 

[voodooless]

his patent seems to be nothing more or other than word salad.

Aren’t all parents Maybe Tektons have more garnish

 

[MoreWatts]

stevehoffman
posted on April 10

Um Tekton?……seriously….. no

We have a speaker manufacturer threatening to litigate against Audio reviewers? Heck no Most of the reviewers get paid very little and do a service to...

forums.stevehoffman.tv

Amir responded in this thread. The thread was closed by their moderators today.

 

[Victor Martell]

Amir responded in this thread. The thread was closed by their moderators today.

TBF it was by request of thread starter. That said, the animosity is startling.

 

[tmtomh]

Amir responded in this thread. The thread was closed by their moderators today.

It also would have been closed eventually anyway, because there is a rule at the Hoffman forums that discussion/debate of the merits or demerits of blind testing is against forum rules. Folks can argue about other elements that are part of the objectivist-subjectivist debate (like for example whether CDs with identical digital data but pressed at different plants sound the same or different) - but arguing about blind testing is forbidden.

I am not defending this rule, just passing along the information that it exists.

As for the animosity that @Victor Martell notes, yes, it is quite marked, because the issues @amirm raised in many of his comments in that thread cut to the heart of the belief that a critical mass of Hoffman members (and Hoffman himself) have: that their ears trump measurements, measurements don't tell the whole story, and so on. It's a culture clash and when it's addressed head-on, folks there can get defensive, dismissive, nasty, the whole gamut.

I find the Hoffman forums quite fun and useful for discussing music and for getting information about different pressings and masterings of albums. But when it comes to equipment and the principles of hi-fi sound reproduction and so on, I come here.

 

[tmtomh]

Oh, one more note: there is a Hoffman forum member with the username pdxway who was one of the folks @amirm went back and forth with, and who earlier posted a couple dozen comments in the thread, all gratuitously bringing Amir and ASR into the discussion because he's made that he was banned over here. I don't know why he was banned (he said way, but of course I view his own explanation as self-serving and untrustworthy), but he's got a huge ax to grind. I don't know if he had the same username here or not.

 

[dday84]

TBF it was by request of thread starter. That said, the animosity is startling.

I've been a member of the SH Forums for close to 20 years. Usually I just discuss music and releases there, but I do wade into the equipment forum as well. I was surprised just how quickly several posters became upset and went on the attack against ASR and Amir in particular, telling him to leave and saying that particular thread was not about him...............but yet Amir and ASR were right in the middle of this whole Tekton fiasco, so that logic made no sense to me.

I'll never understand why some people seem to get upset about audio equipment measurements and what ASR does here. I tend to believe that people who are into audio are very passionate about their equipment, and maybe slightly OCD, so perhaps that is why some people get so upset......but at the end of the day a person can buy whatever they want to buy and can afford, and can still enjoy their equipment even if it gets unfavorable measurements and a lower scored review at ASR.

 

[amirm]

I've been a member of the SH Forums for close to 20 years. Usually I just discuss music and releases there, but I do wade into the equipment forum as well. I was surprised just how quickly several posters became upset and went on the attack against ASR and Amir in particular, telling him to leave and saying that particular thread was not about him...............but yet Amir and ASR were right in the middle of this whole Tekton fiasco, so that logic made no sense to me.

There were doing that before I went there! It didn't take them long (page 2?) before they turned into "we hate ASR" messages. That was more important to them that rallying behind the great cause of having fair reviews without intimidation from companies. That they asked me to leave when they literally put me in the OP, and by OP himself, is beyond rational.

 

[tmtomh]

And now the entire thread has been nuked.

Sometimes they do that temporarily while the mods clean it up. Other times it’s permanent.

 

[dday84]

There were doing that before I went there! It didn't take them long (page 2?) before they turned into "we hate ASR" messages. That was more important to them that rallying behind the great cause of having fair reviews without intimidation from companies. That they asked me to leave when they literally put me in the OP, and by OP himself, is beyond rational.

Yeah, it started on page 2 before you ever arrived there. After I saw that, I posted something on page 2 stating how much I like and value what ASR and you do, and that measurements are a great resource and set of data for anyone to have and consider in regards to equipment they may be looking at buying. Nobody attacked me after that, but some tried to state why they had problems with ASR and you, but I still could not really understand exactly what their issues are........other than some think you are not measuring the right things........but then they can't state what it is they think you should be measuring. I even saw someone state they want to believe their equipment has "magic pixie dust", and that just believing that creates a placebo effect that makes their equipment sound better. At that point, I lost faith in the direction of that thread. As I have been a member there for so long, I feel like I should apologize to you for how you were treated. There are posters there like me that do value what you and ASR do for the audio world.

 

[DLS79]

I'll never understand why some people seem to get upset about audio equipment measurements and what ASR does here. I tend to believe that people who are into audio are very passionate about their equipment, and maybe slightly OCD, so perhaps that is why some people get so upset......but at the end of the day a person can buy whatever they want to buy and can afford, and can still enjoy their equipment even if it gets unfavorable measurements and a lower scored review at ASR.

I think a lot of people get far to emotionally invested in the ownership of, or potential future ownership of random products. Specially when said product is expensive, or uncommon, both of which audio gear regularly is!

 

[BDWoody]

Oh, one more note: there is a Hoffman forum member with the username pdxway who was one of the folks @amirm went back and forth with, and who earlier posted a couple dozen comments in the thread, all gratuitously bringing Amir and ASR into the discussion because he's made that he was banned over here. I don't know why he was banned (he said way, but of course I view his own explanation as self-serving and untrustworthy), but he's got a huge ax to grind. I don't know if he had the same username here or not.

I remember him vividly. There are a handful out there who are nearly rabid in their malice towards our host, and he is one of them.

We really never ban people for being wrong about stuff. We ban people for not knowing how to interact within the guidelines we have. I believe he was pushing Amir to get together with him and measure his gear and do blind tests with him, and after being told that wasn't happening it kinda deteriorated with various insinuations we just don't tolerate.

The other thing is that Amir has a lot less involvement in the moderation of the site than most might want to believe. He gets blamed by all these poor clowns when it was either Adam or me that gave the hammer.

I don't know that Amir has banned anyone since I've been on the job. He's got better things to do. That said, if almost anyone who has been banned reaches out in good faith to rejoin the forum, that is almost always granted.

We aren't punitive, but we actively try to protect what we have from those who only want to pollute the forum with that toxic nastyness.

Do those with the foaming mouths in that thread sound like people we wish were here?

All he accomplished in that thread is to reinforce the decision to show him out.

 

[amirm]

As I have been a member there for so long, I feel like I should apologize to you for how you were treated. There are posters there like me that do value what you and ASR do for the audio world.

Oh you are very kind. But not necessary. I fully know their culture. I think I have only posted there three times over the last few years. The first time it was so miserable that makes this thread look nice! The second time it was actually pleasant as a few people appreciated what I do and were surprised I was posting there. On basis of that, I was hoping I would be welcomed a bit more which turned out to be the case.

What I couldn't understand was the OP claiming he could "nuke" his thread. Do people there have the permission to delete their threads?

 

[MattHooper]

I'm used to taking the flack for defending ASR and Amir on many of the more subjective sites. Lotta moronic replies like "Another ASR cult member defending his priest..."

But it's worth it because it does also brings out folks, some of them who may not post as much, who chime in that they don't share the hate and find ASR valuable, even if they aren't ASR members.

 

[dday84]

What I couldn't understand was the OP claiming he could "nuke" his thread. Do people there have the permission to delete their threads?

As far as I know, an OP cannot control and delete threads he or she creates. The OP has to reach out to a moderator and request they do that. What I have seen most often is an OP reaching out to a mod to change the title of a thread, or merging a thread with an existing similar one.

 

[tmtomh]

As far as I know, an OP cannot control and delete threads he or she creates. The OP has to reach out to a moderator and request they do that. What I have seen most often is an OP reaching out to a mod to change the title of a thread, or merging a thread with an existing similar one.

This is my understanding as well.

The only audio forum I'm aware of where users are (or at least were in the past) given moderation authority over threads they started was AudiophileStyle, and I believe there it is (or was) just certain threads or certain types of threads. I don't recall the details, so someone please correct me if I've gotten it totally wrong. And I don't participate there anymore so even if I'm exactly right I don't know if it's still the case.

 

[dday84]

This is my understanding as well.

The only audio forum I'm aware of where users are (or at least were in the past) given moderation authority over threads they started was AudiophileStyle, and I believe there it is (or was) just certain threads or certain types of threads. I don't recall the details, so someone please correct me if I've gotten it totally wrong. And I don't participate there anymore so even if I'm exactly right I don't know if it's still the case.

I thought your 3 eyed fish avatar from the Simpsons, and username, looked familiar....and today I realized it is because I have seen you on the SH Forums as well.

 

[Rick Sykora]

It also would have been closed eventually anyway, because there is a rule at the Hoffman forums that discussion/debate of the merits or demerits of blind testing is against forum rules. Folks can argue about other elements that are part of the objectivist-subjectivist debate (like for example whether CDs with identical digital data but pressed at different plants sound the same or different) - but arguing about blind testing is forbidden.

I am not defending this rule, just passing along the information that it exists.

As for the animosity that @Victor Martell notes, yes, it is quite marked, because the issues @amirm raised in many of his comments in that thread cut to the heart of the belief that a critical mass of Hoffman members (and Hoffman himself) have: that their ears trump measurements, measurements don't tell the whole story, and so on. It's a culture clash and when it's addressed head-on, folks there can get defensive, dismissive, nasty, the whole gamut.

I find the Hoffman forums quite fun and useful for discussing music and for getting information about different pressings and masterings of albums. But when it comes to equipment and the principles of hi-fi sound reproduction and so on, I come here.

Saw the thread just before it closed. Had never been there before so went there with no expectations. Agree on the animosity but makes more sense based on the forum culture you shared. Thanks.

Feel no need to go there again!