Neumann KH120 II

[AgentWet]

This brings up a great question: at what price point does a sub's qualitative performance go from "cheap" to "great"? Obviously, $5,000 THX Dominus rated 10" subwoofer is great but when dropping to the lowest acceptable performance for "great" - what subwoofer would that be? The specs of the Monoprice THX 10" is arguably "great" as it sacrifices aesthetics and marketing for a direct to consumer model in order to sell it at $650, but can "great" be had with the $600 SVS SB1000 or even the $450 RSL Speedwoofer?

My favourite is here: https://arendalsound.com/product/1723-subwoofer-2s/

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Do you know if a pair of Neumann KH750 subwoofers can be optimized with the MA1? Multi-sub is really where its at with such software!

Yes, the MA1 software currently supports up to 2 KH750 in a stereo setup. Example.

 

[teashea]

Today I ordered a pair of KH 120 II's from Sweetwater. I will report back.....

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I hope you can set up HPF on KH80/120II/150 even without MA1 mic, just through the app.

Theoretically yes, but practically no, not really with the current MA1-version. Maybe with the old iPad app, but that does not support 120II/150. Some try developing their own app/script for controlling Neumann DSP speakers, but i don´t know if there is a working open source program out there yet.

 

[AgentWet]

Theoretically yes, but practically no, not really with the current MA1-version. Maybe with the old iPad app, but that does not support 120II/150. Some try developing their own app/script for controlling Neumann DSP speakers, but i don´t know if there is a working open source program out there yet.

You mean, that there is no option to set +/- 80Hz crossover point and slope or some strong bass roll of / filter by EQ in MA1 app? If this is truth, then KH line is no go. Every producer is working on obstacles all time... Why? Because of money...

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I heard a saying as below regarding max SPL:
1x KH750>2x KH80s
1x KH750≌2x KH120s (original 120, not KH120II)
1x KH750<2x KH150, 2x KH750≌2xKH150
I use 1x KH750 with a pair of KH80. Occasionally, when I play loud, the KH750 could be overloaded and in red. So I'm wondering is a pair of KH750s could be better. Appreciate any comments.

If I were you, I would first try to find out exactly when and why the sub is overwhelmed. Is it at a volume where this is actually to be expected, does it only happen at certain frequencies, could it be that something is not optimally set?
Is the red light just disturbing psychologically or does it not sound good either?
If you just like to listen loud and maybe have a larger room, maybe a KH750 is not enough for you, then a second sub will give you 6 dB more headroom.
In that case, though, I'm surprised the KH80s aren't also overloaded - maybe you listen to very bass-heavy music. Or the KH80s are just below the limiter limit. If it doesn't sound good, it could also be that you could benefit from KH120II - because they can play cleanly much louder than the KH80.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

You mean, that there is no option to set +/- 80Hz crossover point and slope or some strong bass roll of / filter by EQ in MA1 app?

You can´t set EQ or crossover filters in the MA1 software. You can create your own target curve to a degree, but the software itself creates the filters from measurement + target.
The older Neumann.control iPad-app had that functionality (for the KH80 and KH750 only), but it hasn´t been updated since 2019.

 

[HQY]

If I were you, I would first try to find out exactly when and why the sub is overwhelmed. Is it at a volume where this is actually to be expected, does it only happen at certain frequencies, could it be that something is not optimally set?
Is the red light just disturbing psychologically or does it not sound good either?
If you just like to listen loud and maybe have a larger room, maybe a KH750 is not enough for you, then a second sub will give you 6 dB more headroom.
In that case, though, I'm surprised the KH80s aren't also overloaded - maybe you listen to very bass-heavy music. Or the KH80s are just below the limiter limit. If it doesn't sound good, it could also be that you could benefit from KH120II - because they can play cleanly much louder than the KH80.

Thank you very much for the analysis and it's very helpful. The overload was just at extream situation while I was playing drum music quite lound. I am also consider to replace 80s with 120IIs and continue to use one 750 if it's sufficient for the base for most of situations. If my current budget is no more than US$2k, what can benefit more, adding one 750, or replacing 80s with 120IIs? Appreciate any comments and advices.

 

[AgentWet]

You can´t set EQ or crossover filters in the MA1 software. You can create your own target curve to a degree, but the software itself creates the filters from measurement + target.
The older Neumann.control iPad-app had that functionality (for the KH80 and KH750 only), but it hasn´t been updated since 2019.

Shame on Neumann for this.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Shame on Neumann for this.

Yeah, SHAME on them for builing state of the art speakers less expensive than their direct competitors with a 250 EUR add-on-option for a measurement mic and automatic alignment.

 

[enricoclaudio]

You mean, that there is no option to set +/- 80Hz crossover point and slope or some strong bass roll of / filter by EQ in MA1 app? If this is truth, then KH line is no go. Every producer is working on obstacles all time... Why? Because of money...

No with the MA-1 mic/app but you can with a miniDSP FLEX TRS with or without Dirac Live and a UMIK-1 or UMIK-2 mic + REW. I have my KH150s crossed over 80Hz and below that my Rythmik Audio E22 takes care of bass.

 

[AgentWet]

Yeah, SHAME on them for builing state of the art speakers less expensive than their direct competitors with a 250 EUR add-on-option for a measurement mic and automatic alignment.

I know, that they are making great monitors, but they are also making some things which can chase away some customers... And again, it is just few lines of software...

 

[AgentWet]

No with the MA-1 mic/app but you can with a miniDSP FLEX TRS with or without Dirac Live and a UMIK-1 or UMIK-2 mic + REW. I have my KH150s crossed over 80Hz and below that my Rythmik Audio E22 takes care of bass.

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Thanks, but it seems to be too much complicated for me. I don't want to work on computer every time I want to listen music. I need some easy solution how to get signal from my ADI2DAC into the SUB and from SUB into the satellites. And I hoped that I will be able to set the curve in monitors forever and then to add any good SUB.

 

[enricoclaudio]

Thanks, but it seems to be too much complicated for me. I don't want to work on computer every time I want to listen music. I need some easy solution how to get signal from my ADI2DAC into the SUB and from SUB into the satellites. And I hoped that I will be able to set the curve in monitors forever and then to add any good SUB.

Looks like you have no idea how MiniDSP works. I haven’t mess or open MiniDSP software in at least 2 months and I listen to music every day for no less than 8 hours. You set it up and forget about it.

 

[HQY]

Accoring to 150/120II manual, if connect 150/120II to 750 by using digital cable, 150/120II has to set to Local. As such, is it possible to use MA1?

 

[AgentWet]

Looks like you have no idea how MiniDSP works. I haven’t mess or open MiniDSP software in at least 2 months and I listen to music every day for no less than 8 hours. You set it up and forget about it.

OK. So how it works? Through the computer or you can send it into the monitor and save it in? I said, that I don't want to use my computer for listening music. I need solution for DAC, SUB and monitors only.

 

[enricoclaudio]

OK. So how it works? Through the computer or you can send it into the monitor and save it in? I said, that I don't want to use my computer for listening music. I need solution for DAC, SUB and monitors only.

Check here:

2.1 Sub integration + REW

miniDSP is a leading manufacturer of Digital Audio Signal Processors for the HomeTheater, Hifi, headphone and Automotive market. Join our large community of Audiophiles, Engineers and DIYers using our innovative products.

www.minidsp.com

You set it up with a computer then you can unplug the computer and all settings are saved in the MiniDSP. You can save up to 4 different configurations inside the MiniDSP and switch between them with the IR remote. If you want to make changes to your saved settings, plug your laptop via USB, open the MiniDSP Device Console app and make the changes.

In my particular case, my Matrix Audio X-SABRE 3 DAC and RME Fireface UCX II Audio Interface go to the Benchmark HPA4 headphone amp / pre amp and from the Benchmark to the miniDSP FLEX TRS (Balanced connections) then in miniDSP FLEX I do HPF, LPF, EQ and time align speakers and subwoofer with Dirac Live (You can do it with REW only) and from miniDSP FLEX to Neumann KH150s and Rythmik Audio E22. The miniDSP FLEX has stereo balanced inputs and 4 independent balanced outs so you can run a pair of active monitors and a pair of subwoofers.

 

[audafreak]

Do you know if a pair of Neumann KH750 subwoofers can be optimized with the MA1? Multi-sub is really where its at with such software!

Yes, it is possible.

 

[Laserjock]

Check here:

2.1 Sub integration + REW

miniDSP is a leading manufacturer of Digital Audio Signal Processors for the HomeTheater, Hifi, headphone and Automotive market. Join our large community of Audiophiles, Engineers and DIYers using our innovative products.

www.minidsp.com

You set it up with a computer then you can unplug the computer and all settings are saved in the MiniDSP. You can save up to 4 different configurations inside the MiniDSP and switch between them with the IR remote. If you want to make changes to your saved settings, plug your laptop via USB, open the MiniDSP Device Console app and make the changes.

In my particular case, my Matrix Audio X-SABRE 3 DAC and RME Fireface UCX II Audio Interface go to the Benchmark HPA4 headphone amp / pre amp and from the Benchmark to the miniDSP FLEX TRS (Balanced connections) then in miniDSP FLEX I do HPF, LPF, EQ and time align speakers and subwoofer with Dirac Live (You can do it with REW only) and from miniDSP FLEX to Neumann KH150s and Rythmik Audio E22. The miniDSP FLEX has stereo balanced inputs and 4 independent balanced outs so you can run a pair of active monitors and a pair of subwoofers.

View attachment 285052

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Clean

 

[AgentWet]

Check here:

2.1 Sub integration + REW

miniDSP is a leading manufacturer of Digital Audio Signal Processors for the HomeTheater, Hifi, headphone and Automotive market. Join our large community of Audiophiles, Engineers and DIYers using our innovative products.

www.minidsp.com

You set it up with a computer then you can unplug the computer and all settings are saved in the MiniDSP. You can save up to 4 different configurations inside the MiniDSP and switch between them with the IR remote. If you want to make changes to your saved settings, plug your laptop via USB, open the MiniDSP Device Console app and make the changes.

In my particular case, my Matrix Audio X-SABRE 3 DAC and RME Fireface UCX II Audio Interface go to the Benchmark HPA4 headphone amp / pre amp and from the Benchmark to the miniDSP FLEX TRS (Balanced connections) then in miniDSP FLEX I do HPF, LPF, EQ and time align speakers and subwoofer with Dirac Live (You can do it with REW only) and from miniDSP FLEX to Neumann KH150s and Rythmik Audio E22. The miniDSP FLEX has stereo balanced inputs and 4 independent balanced outs so you can run a pair of active monitors and a pair of subwoofers.

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Nice. But still a bit complicated for sofa guy like me I need to wait for new KH310 II DSP Without SUB
By the way... How do you like your Parasound P6 PRE?