New Neumann MA 1 - Automatic Monitor Alignment

[badboygolf16v]

GLM is a far superior product in every aspect. Functionality and usability aren't really comparable with MA 1.

The dedicated interface does away with all the "why isn't this interface working" issues.

 

[VTKZ]

Some news from me, i wanted to measure in my new setup since i completely did a room makeover.
Everything setup as always, focusrite interface, lan connection, the two subwoofers connected with Y Adapters etc…
so the way i always do it and know it works. Speakers are shown in the software, that works but now a completly new problem,
Massive problems with feedback loop & noise.
I changed all cables - same problem
changed the network switch - same..
use the Ground / Lift function - same ..
changed the power strip and uses direct connection through an power outlet - same..

ive enough know and realy pissed off. I dont know how you can release an product wich still have so many problems.
I dont know how professionals can work with it, when you need to relie on this, need to make money
out of audio production but have such an unfinished product….

So, as i said ìm done with the MA1. Im keeping the KH150 for now but with sell my 2x KH750 in the near future.
Maybe i go later full with Genelec, maybe with trinnov, or simple via dirac… i dont know…
Very frustrated at the moment, that even an automatic calibration system doesnt work reliable.
I own MA1 products since the very first beginning and even after all this years,
you still going crazy using the software. And i definitely dont will buy new cables or even a new interface to hope that it works.

But all this software mess aside, iˋm nearly dont with my Acoustics and think turned out pretty good. Tomorrow i wrap
the last element in the middle, buy some small profiles to have a nice clean wall connection and than i order later my light solution.
4 spots who shine down the wall between the element gaps. Think will look pretty good when the installed.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Some news from me, i wanted to measure in my new setup since i completely did a room makeover.
Everything setup as always, focusrite interface, lan connection, the two subwoofers connected with Y Adapters etc…
so the way i always do it and know it works. Speakers are shown in the software, that works but now a completly new problem,
Massive problems with feedback loop & noise.
I changed all cables - same problem
changed the network switch - same..
use the Ground / Lift function - same ..
changed the power strip and uses direct connection through an power outlet - same..

ive enough know and realy pissed off. I dont know how you can release an product wich still have so many problems.
I dont know how professionals can work with it, when you need to relie on this, need to make money
out of audio production but have such an unfinished product….

So, as i said ìm done with the MA1. Im keeping the KH150 for now but with sell my 2x KH750 in the near future.
Maybe i go later full with Genelec, maybe with trinnov, or simple via dirac… i dont know…
Very frustrated at the moment, that even an automatic calibration system doesnt work reliable.
I own MA1 products since the very first beginning and even after all this years,
you still going crazy using the software. And i definitely dont will buy new cables or even a new interface to hope that it works.

But all this software mess aside, iˋm nearly dont with my Acoustics and think turned out pretty good. Tomorrow i wrap
the last element in the middle, buy some small profiles to have a nice clean wall connection and than i order later my light solution.
4 spots who shine down the wall between the element gaps. Think will look pretty good when the installed.

View attachment 348455

I don't what you mean with feedback and noise problems, but i think i had problems like this when i tried it with a subwoofer facing a wall. have you tried turning the left sub?

 

[VTKZ]

I don't what you mean with feedback and noise problems, but i think i had problems like this when i tried it with a subwoofer facing a wall. have you tried turning the left sub?

i tried everything. Placement, Cables etc.
Had the subs on the left & right side of the listening area, each of them on 1/4 of the front wall like the neumann recommandation, placed the sub on the left of the couch. Membranes facing to the wall, facing into the room... everything

I dont know how to upload audio / video clips here but fact is, it also doesnt work in the software with these ,,low level input problems,,.

It sounds like when you plugged in a speaker, turned it on and put your finger on the contacts (ground loop ?!) - i dont know the exact english translation. Like something is nunshielded and influences the internal electronics

 

[radix]

what is you wiring diagram?

 

[VTKZ]

- Win PC
- Focusrite Solo via USB
- 2x Y Cable 1/4" Mono Jack to Stereo XLR out of the Interface
- each Cable to each the KH750
- KH750 out XLR to KH150
- All Components (Speakers & PC) connect via Switch to the Router

as i said i already did the measurements with this config and it worked

 

[zakco]

I am running the MA-1 with a 5.1 system (3xKH150, 2xKH120ii, KH750) with external bass management.
The calibration process goes smoothly but when I listen to the result, the KH750 ends up out of phase and needs to be reversed using the bass management software. I have tried 2 different bass management apps (Ginger Audio Sphere and Antelope Audio's multichannel software) and it's the same result. Can anyone help me understand why this is happening?

 

[HarmonicTHD]

- Win PC
- Focusrite Solo via USB
- 2x Y Cable 1/4" Mono Jack to Stereo XLR out of the Interface
- each Cable to each the KH750
- KH750 out XLR to KH150
- All Components (Speakers & PC) connect via Switch to the Router

as i said i already did the measurements with this config and it worked

So what does Neumann say?

Still not sure what you mean by feedback? Maybe ground loop? Did you flip the ground lift switch on the KH750?

 

[VTKZ]

So what does Neumann say?

Still not sure what you mean by feedback? Maybe ground loop? Did you flip the ground lift switch on the KH750?

yea i tried everything the backplate has to offer. With feedback mean noise sounds, crackles etc hearable even when you 3 meters away. I cant upload Video or Audio sample here, hope that works. Short clip :

PXL_20240209_114905142.mp4 - VEED - Online Video Editor - Video Editing Made Simple

www.veed.io

I dont message them today. Will write them on monday

 

[DJBonoBobo]

yea i tried everything the backplate has to offer. With feedback mean noise sounds, crackles etc hearable even when you 3 meters away. I cant upload Video or Audio sample here, hope that works. Short clip :

PXL_20240209_114905142.mp4 - VEED - Online Video Editor - Video Editing Made Simple

www.veed.io

I dont message them today. Will write them on monday

I don't understand the relation to the MA1 software - are these noise sounds only there after calibration? Or in other words, can you describe what the software has to do with this problem?
Normally i would think of a ground loop thing between the PC and the interface. I had something like this with a Motu interface once and could solve it with a usb isolator. You seem sure Neumann is the culprit here, but i don't understand how.

 

[VTKZ]

This noise only start when i want to do the first measurement. So i open MA1, select the network interface, select the Speakers and than in the next step where the Signal Adaptation is in progress, starts the noise.

When i close the software its gone and i can normally use the interface and speakers for listening without any problems. I already updated to the latest Version.

As i said i already did tons of measurements with the software without problems. maybe its an failure of the new firmware ? i updated it before i started...

 

[Markus @ Neumann]

This noise only start when i want to do the first measurement. So i open MA1, select the network interface, select the Speakers and than in the next step where the Signal Adaptation is in progress, starts the noise.

When i close the software its gone and i can normally use the interface and speakers for listening without any problems. I already updated to the latest Version.

As i said i already did tons of measurements with the software without problems. maybe its an failure of the new firmware ? i updated it before i started...

Hello VTKZ,

A Problem that sometimes occurs is, that the routing inside the audio interface is not set correctly. There must not be a direct connection between mic input and output to the loudspeakers. Otherwise there will be a feedback that way that the received mic signal is reproduced directly via the loudspeaker. That must be avoided. You should have a routing similar to standard recording settings with the soundcard. Means the mic signal goes directly to the computer and the computer output is connected to the loudspeaker.

Best regards,

Markus

 

[VTKZ]

Yea ive checked this in the focusrite interface and the software but its set up correctly. I will try it today again and will look at everything again, install the software new. Check about Updates of all Components from my PC...

Very confusing because i did tons of measurements with this combo. Nothing changed..

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Hello VTKZ,

A Problem that sometimes occurs is, that the routing inside the audio interface is not set correctly. There must not be a direct connection between mic input and output to the loudspeakers. Otherwise there will be a feedback that way that the received mic signal is reproduced directly via the loudspeaker. That must be avoided. You should have a routing similar to standard recording settings with the soundcard. Means the mic signal goes directly to the computer and the computer output is connected to the loudspeaker.

Best regards,

Markus

Do you mean the "Direct" or "Direct monitoring" button on the Focusrite Solo, that has to be switched off?

 

[HarmonicTHD]

My money is on the routing of the Focusrite Software which can be confusing at times.

I have 4i4 plus Neumann KH80/750 and never had a problem with MA1.

 

[VTKZ]

I just tried it again - first without Subs - and now it works. Ive zero idea why i had problems... Changed nothing...
Later today i set it up with Subs and see if i get problems.
Its a mystery...

And probs to the Software designer. It looks very professional and clean now also with the different frequency bands you see in the final result.
Great improvements with the latest update

Edit : I found the problem why the noise was so high. Its the XLR (Stereo) to Stereo Jack Cable (Thomann Pro Snake TPY 2030 JMM)
wich causes the high noise. I ordered now new ones. Pretty sad because one Y cable costs 22 euro...
I try some things now if i can fix it but its obvious the cable because when i use the mono XLR cables it, the noise is gone

But who on earth decided to do this all on an Analog way with XLR Cables ?
Why not Daisy Chain this like Genelec do with simply Network Cables ?
Sorry as good as the results are, but its ridiculous over-complicated , such an Cablemess and very !!! error prone

 

[dazzler9000]

Hi, I've been having issues trying to calibrate my KH150s with the MA1. Would anyone mind checking this thread here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...or-neumann-dsp-correction.33481/#post-1896961 and offering any advice?

 

[HIFIBOY]

Hello kindleman,

The Neumann MA 1 measurement microphone can be used as a standard measurement microphone also in combination with other software applications. It requires 48 V phantom power and has the parameters as frequency linearity, max SPL and noise level according to the data sheet.

However, since every MA 1 microphone is measured individually during production it can be calibrated to a class 1 measurement microphone. Therefore, we provide a MICROPHONE LINEARIZATION tool on our website.

MA 1

ma1.neumann.com

By entering in the individual calibration code printed on every microphone into the calculator the tool provides a compensation file which then can be imported into a measurement software as microphone calibration table.
View attachment 345510
View attachment 345509

In the MA 1 software you can select backplate mode alignment which disables the calibration data previously calculated and uploaded into the loudspeakers/subs by the software.
If a noticeable latency occurs that usually indicates that a strong mode is at or around the x-over frequency (80 Hz). If this is the case it may make sense to look for a better position of subwoofer or monitors.
Despite a amplitude correction the algorithm optimizes the coherence between sub and monitors to achieve a maximum tight bass response. If there is a strong mode the group-delay next to it increases which then can increase latency.

With best regards,

Markus

Hello markus.

1.1.10 Firmware, there is a situation that the light is not on after standby sleep, and the power needs to be turned off for 2 minutes, and then the startup is normal.

 

[Markus @ Neumann]

Hello markus.

1.1.10 Firmware, there is a situation that the light is not on after standby sleep, and the power needs to be turned off for 2 minutes, and then the startup is normal.

Hello HIFIBOY,

Yes there is a bug with the current firmware version. We are working on that. For the time beeing please leave the device turned off for at least 2 mins or disable the stand by function.
Sorry for the inconvenience.

With best regards,

Markus

 

[sm5]

Yes there is a bug with the current firmware version. We are working on that.

As a suggestion for a future software/firmware update: adding 5.1.2 calibration for the MA-1 multichannel extension would be great.

The reason for this is on Apple computers: the only settings for outputs are 5.1/6.1/7.1/7.1 Rear/Quad/Hex/Oct
& Atmos 5.1.2 & 7.1.4. (They for some reason don't have a 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 output setting!)

I'm sure most owners would appreciate being able to calibrate to Apple's standard 5.1.2 Atmos output. (If anyone knows someone at Apple who could suggest adding 5.1.4/7.1.2 as they already have 7.1.4 - that would great too.)

Thanks!