oratory1990 target tuning closed-back headphones recommendations? (without using EQ)

[jakobspiral]

A warm hello to everyone! New member here.

As the title goes, I need recommendations for closed-back headphones that are close to oratory1990's target tuning, or even a little more bass if possible (+15db bass, 0 mids, +10db treble).

I don't want to use EQ because I will also be using this with my guitar multi-fx (BOSS GT-1).

When listening to music, I listen thru Shanling UA2, but I'm thinking about upgrading to Sonata E44.

In audio terms (I'll try my best), hopefully something like this exists without EQ:
bass tight and punchy, not bloated or boomy.
mids a bit gentle but not hollow, a medium amount of hardness/forwardness/brightness in the vocals with no sibilance, not piercing.
highs sweet, but a little airy & crisp.
overall sounds transparent, clear, and detailed,
with a wide, tall, and deep soundstage.

If it doesn't exist, I understand. I guess I'll just go for an IEM then, lot of options there...

I was going for the DT770 but I hate sibilance. The HD25 is uncomfortable so that was a no-no. Seeing I may be out of options for around $200, I guess I should stretch my budget to around $400. I read from a review that the M40x doesn't have a good soundstage? And the graphs seem like the bass is boomy. I like the DT770 bass more (from the graphs, haven't tried it.)

 

[Koo]

Have you checked out the AKG K371? I haven't yet been able to listen to them but they seem to follow the target tuning better than any other headphone without DSP out there. Amir has also reviewed it.

 

[Merkurio]

You may also look at wireless closed-back headphones that store the EQ preset from their app into the actual headphone, bringing you more versatility by adjusting the sound to your liking but without the inconvenience of requiere specific software or hardware for EQing.

Anker Soundcore Life Q30 or Shure Aonic 50 (this one with 4 band parametric EQ into their app) are examples of well-regarded wireless headphones that can store their EQ preset in the device.

 

[jakobspiral]

You may also look at wireless closed-back headphones that store the EQ preset from their app into the actual headphone, bringing you more versatility by adjusting the sound to your liking but without the inconvenience of requiere specific software or hardware for EQing.

Anker Soundcore Life Q30 or Shure Aonic 50 (this one with 4 band parametric EQ into their app) are examples of well-regarded wireless headphones that can store their EQ preset in the device.

I'm afraid I won't be able to replace the battery for wireless earphones, I wish they were just AA or AAA so it's easy to buy new ones... Sorry I failed to specify I wanted wired ones... my bad.

Have you checked out the AKG K371? I haven't yet been able to listen to them but they seem to follow the target tuning better than any other headphone without DSP out there. Amir has also reviewed it.

It does follow the oratory1990 very close, although that weird dip at 4khz will really affect the sound, too bad it was almost perfect.

From my research, I'll go for the Sony MDR1AM2.. I was hoping to get more suggestions but I guess it's rare to have bass with absolutely no sibilance or without overpowering the mids too much...

I noticed most headphones that are bassy have bad mids, or bad soundstage, or too much sibilance that it really needs EQ, and I can't go for any of those unless I buy an outboard EQ & headphone amp which is just too much of a hassle..

Thanks guys for the replies.

 

[Alacris]

The Oratory1990 Optimum HiFi curve is basically just the Harman target without the bass shelf (+5.5 dB). Some sealed headphones that measure quite closely to this target include the AKG K361/K371, and the Shure SRH440/SRH840.

The MDR-1AM2 has a fairly prominent peak around 8-9 khz, but whether you would find it to be problematic (sibilant) completely depends on you and your ears. But if you want something that's bassy and fun, it's a good choice.

As someone who has tried the K371, I will agree that the dip at 4 khz does in fact affect the sound in a negative way (certain sibilant sounds lack that 'brilliance' they should have, particularly in female vocals). But so many headphones, particularly closed-backs have some flaws. You just have to decide on what compromises you are willing to make.

 

[jakobspiral]

The Oratory1990 Optimum HiFi curve is basically just the Harman target without the bass shelf (+5.5 dB). Some sealed headphones that measure quite closely to this target include the AKG K361/K371, and the Shure SRH440/SRH840.

The MDR-1AM2 has a fairly prominent peak around 8-9 khz, but whether you would find it to be problematic (sibilant) completely depends on you and your ears. But if you want something that's bassy and fun, it's a good choice.

As someone who has tried the K371, I will agree that the dip at 4 khz does in fact affect the sound in a negative way (certain sibilant sounds lack that 'brilliance' they should have, particularly in female vocals). But so many headphones, particularly closed-backs have some flaws. You just have to decide on what compromises you are willing to make.

Oh, I misunderstood, without the bass shelf? I thought the oratory was the harman target with an even bigger bass shelf and less treble:

The MDR-1AM2 seems to have less peaks and valleys on the treble side so hopefully providing a more balanced treble, at least compared to the older MDR-1A it has less of a sibilant spike (1A is blue, 1AM2 is green):

I guess I should wait and ask around if I can find someone in my area to try them all out before buying one... You're right most of them have a problem (like the Shure 840 lacks sub bass) I guess I do have to just decide what flaw I'm willing to take. I like the AKG K371 tuning more, but the MDR-1AM2's treble seems more balanced which I really like... I have to listen to both personally to find out for sure.

 

[Alacris]

Oh, I misunderstood, without the bass shelf? I thought the oratory was the harman target with an even bigger bass shelf and less treble:
View attachment 160438

The MDR-1AM2 seems to have less peaks and valleys on the treble side so hopefully providing a more balanced treble, at least compared to the older MDR-1A it has less of a sibilant spike (1A is blue, 1AM2 is green):
View attachment 160439

Ah, it's because you're looking at the in-ear targets which are a totally different beast to the over-ear targets. Oratory1990's in-ear target compared to the Harman in-ear target in his own words are:

• more energy in the low mids ("more thump" / "more fun")
• less energy in the upper mids / lower treble ("less harsh" / "less plastic-y")

However, it seems you're after over-ear headphones according to your original post, meaning you need to be looking at the Harman over-ear target.

The graph you showed comparing the MDR-1A and 1AM2 is using the miniDSP EARS as the measurement rig which is not industry standard and has many problems with it. It is especially unreliable in the higher frequencies, particularly above 3khz. So I wouldn't make any judgements about the treble based on that alone. I could be wrong but I believe Crinacle measured the 1AM2 on a GRAS 43AG, which is industry standard: https://crinacle.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/MDR-1AM2.jpg

I guess I should wait and ask around if I can find someone in my area to try them all out before buying one...

Absolutely! It is a big mistake to buy headphones based on measurement graphs alone. You don't know how the headphone will feel on your head until you physically try it in person, let alone whether you actually like the sound or not. I thought the K371 looked perfect on paper, I saw all these reviews talking about how amazing they were, and yet I didn't like it at all when I tried it. Yet others still stand by them, because it's all preference at the end of the day.

 

[ADU]

You are asking alot for a single pair of headphones, jakobspiral.

- Must be closed.
- Must be wired.
- Must have well-extended balance sound, with no sibilance.
- Must sound good with no EQ.
- Must have wide, tall, and deep soundstage (which doesn't generally exist in closed HPs).
- Must work as a guitar monitor.
- Must work with USB DAC (presumably for streaming music from a laptop?).
- Must work without an amp.
- Must follow Oratory's target (though we're unsure exactly which one).
- Must be comfortable.
- Must be under $400, and closer to $200 would probably be better.

Did I leave anything out?

Offhand, I don't know of any closed over-ear headphone that can really fullfill all of those requirements.

I don't think I could even suggest a good closed, wired, over-ear headphone to you which can reliably deliver a well-extended, well-balanced sound without any equalization. If such an animal exists in the sub-$300 price range, I've yet to run across it. And would be glad to hear recommendations from some others. Because this is exactly the type of thing I've been lookin for as well. (Though I think my next HP could end up bein an open-back.)

 

[ADU]

The M40x is not a bad sounding headphone for certain applications. But it has small hard earpads, and clamps like a mother. And has a very narrow image, and no sub-bass (unless you add some EQ). So think I'd pass on that.

 

[RHO]

- Must be closed.
- Must be wired.
- Must have well-extended balance sound, with no sibilance.
- Must sound good with no EQ.
- Must have wide, tall, and deep soundstage (which doesn't generally exist in closed HPs).
- Must work as a guitar monitor.
- Must work with USB DAC (presumably for streaming music from a laptop?).
- Must work without an amp.
- Must follow Oratory's target (though we're unsure exactly which one).
- Must be comfortable.
- Must be under $400, and closer to $200 would probably be better.

I think the K371 comes very close to what you're asking.
Apparently they suffer from QC issues, but personally I have had no issues with them whatsoever in that regard. I think they are very well build for the price.

 

[jakobspiral]

Ah, it's because you're looking at the in-ear targets which are a totally different beast to the over-ear targets. Oratory1990's in-ear target compared to the Harman in-ear target in his own words are:

• more energy in the low mids ("more thump" / "more fun")
• less energy in the upper mids / lower treble ("less harsh" / "less plastic-y")

Oh, you're right! I guess I'm looking for the in-ear target, in headphones...

Looks like the perfect one doesn't exist under $400, if only I could tame the sibilance of the DT770 that would be great... I saw the industry standard chart of the MDR-1AM2, and yikes yup there is a spike in 8khz which means sibilance. That means the AKG K371 does seem like the closest one, I guess I just have to make do for now...

 

[jakobspiral]

You are asking alot for a single pair of headphones, jakobspiral.

- Must be closed.
- Must be wired.
- Must have well-extended balance sound, with no sibilance.
- Must sound good with no EQ.
- Must have wide, tall, and deep soundstage (which doesn't generally exist in closed HPs).
- Must work as a guitar monitor.
- Must work with USB DAC (presumably for streaming music from a laptop?).
- Must work without an amp.
- Must follow Oratory's target (though we're unsure exactly which one).
- Must be comfortable.
- Must be under $400, and closer to $200 would probably be better.

Did I leave anything out?

Yeah I guess I am asking for too much if it's under $400..

Also Powerful Bass, lol, like maybe +10db bass, 0 mids, +7db treble or +10db treble. The Sennheiser HD650 was actually really good and I'm thinking about it, but the AKG K371's bass is more powerful. If I could just add the DT770's bass to the HD650 that would be perfection.

About the no amp and usb dac, that's the part that's no problem for most headphones cos the Shanling UA2 has less than 1.6ohm impedance, and 4vrms 195mw is plenty for me, even its 2vrms output was good enough for my Sennheiser HD280 which I EQ with my laptop when listening to music.

The no EQ though, that is the big problem, cos I also want to use it for my guitar effects so I have to get headphones that sound similar to a PA system (sounds "natural like a live setting"), so it will sound the same when I set it up. My HD280 when I use it without EQ for hearing my recording mistakes/artifacts, it does not sound like a PA system at all...