Preamp - thoughts

[tonapo]

I have been on the look out for a pre-amp for my main system to partner with my NAD M23 power amp, I would be using with two sources, Cambridge Audio CD player and a Holo Cyan 2 DAC. Currently I am using a Topping pre90, which is good, but it was only supposed to be a temporary arrangement, and I was planning to use the pre90 in a bedroom set-up. So, I would like a full size pre-amp to sit in my main rack, this is not a must, but I do prefer the look of a full width device. I need a good remote, XLR in and out, digital in, 12v trigger, UK warranty (ideally) and works with the M23. I also would prefer to keep streaming, DACs off the menu for now, but this is not a 'hard' rule.

I have had my eyes on a Benchmark LA4 for a while, but purchase options are a little limited in the UK and I can't walk into a store to have a look at one. I just came across a Primare PRE35, which looks to tick most of my boxes, although I can't see lots of reviews. To my laymans eyes it looks to be a decent match to the M23, what do people think?

Is there anything else I should consider? Pre-amps are a bit thin on the ground as I have been looking around

 

[Purité Audio]

The LA4 is a well designed bit of kit, perhaps aesthetically questionable, but it won’t bring better sound quality over the Topping.
You might look at at dacs with analogue ’in’.
Keith

 

[Sokel]

Denafrips Athena looks like a good one to me:

ATHENA | DENAFRIPS

www.denafrips.com

Full size,lots of I/O,really nice measurements,good looks,decent price,etc.
Or go all in and go for M66.

 

[DHT 845]

I have been on the look out for a pre-amp for my main system to partner with my NAD M23 power amp, I would be using with two sources, Cambridge Audio CD player and a Holo Cyan 2 DAC. Currently I am using a Topping pre90, which is good, but it was only supposed to be a temporary arrangement, and I was planning to use the pre90 in a bedroom set-up. So, I would like a full size pre-amp to sit in my main rack, this is not a must, but I do prefer the look of a full width device. I need a good remote, XLR in and out, digital in, 12v trigger, UK warranty (ideally) and works with the M23. I also would prefer to keep streaming, DACs off the menu for now, but this is not a 'hard' rule.

I have had my eyes on a Benchmark LA4 for a while, but purchase options are a little limited in the UK and I can't walk into a store to have a look at one. I just came across a Primare PRE35, which looks to tick most of my boxes, although I can't see lots of reviews. To my laymans eyes it looks to be a decent match to the M23, what do people think?

Is there anything else I should consider? Pre-amps are a bit thin on the ground as I have been looking around

But do compare the new preamp to Pre90. It is a very good sounding preamp, in fact it preserves the source qualities (DAC/tuner) intact.
Did you tried NAD M66? That is very interesting device.

 

[JohnnyNG]

I do prefer the look of a full width device.

The LA4 is about the same width as the Pre90.

 

[LTig]

Go for a preamp with builtin room EQ. Despite measuring worse the resulting sound quality with room EQ will be better.

 

[Mikig]

if you're looking for performance, Pre90. you have a smaller box, but as others have said, the Topping is quite unbeatable for performance/price ratio, with measurements that are among the best ever taken. If you've never tried one, try a passive one, there are also balanced and remote controlled ones.

 

[tonapo]

Thank you for the replies!

The LA4 is a well designed bit of kit, perhaps aesthetically questionable, but it won’t bring better sound quality over the Topping.
You might look at at dacs with analogue ’in’.
Keith

Agreed, not about sound quality per se, more about features I think, but ideally would not want a reduction in sound quality.

Denafrips Athena looks like a good one to me:

ATHENA | DENAFRIPS

www.denafrips.com

Full size,lots of I/O,really nice measurements,good looks,decent price,etc.
Or go all in and go for M66.

Thanks, the Denfrips looks a nice unit, but not sure I can view easily in the UK. The M66 is interesting, but looking at what I would need, I think I would be paying for lots of features I would not use, plus its expensive.

But do compare the new preamp to Pre90. It is a very good sounding preamp, in fact it preserves the source qualities (DAC/tuner) intact.
Did you tried NAD M66? That is very interesting device.

Thanks, yes, I would try and ensure any new bit of kit gets tested at home.

The LA4 is about the same width as the Pre90.

Agreed, although I prefer a full width device. I still might go for an LA4, but I think I can go and see the Primare locally, so I can get an actual feel for it, along with the controller etc.

Go for a preamp with builtin room EQ. Despite measuring worse the resulting sound quality with room EQ will be better.

Maybe, I currently do this by using EQ in Roon. Any recommendations though?

 

[tonapo]

if you're looking for performance, Pre90. you have a smaller box, but as others have said, the Topping is quite unbeatable for performance/price ratio, with measurements that are among the best ever taken. If you've never tried one, try a passive one, there are also balanced and remote controlled ones.

Thank you, yes I have wondered about a passive, but I don't have any experience myself, and when looking I could only find subjective stuff. I looked at Khozmo over the last few weeks, but again, I think I would need to import. Ideally I would want something with UK warranty.

 

[Mikig]

Thank you, yes I have wondered about a passive, but I don't have any experience myself, and when looking I could only find subjective stuff. I looked at Khozmo over the last few weeks, but again, I think I would need to import. Ideally I would want something with UK warranty.

I use a Khozmo, balanced with remote control. I bought it out of curiosity, I must say that for now I find it really pleasant. It is convenient thanks to the remote control and has both RCA and XLR inputs and outputs.

 

[Sokel]

Thanks, the Denfrips looks a nice unit, but not sure I can view easily in the UK. The M66 is interesting, but looking at what I would need, I think I would be paying for lots of features I would not use, plus its expensive.

They do have a rep in UK as I can see as they do all over Europe,maybe they demo it so could play with it up close?

Denafrips | Willow Tree Audio

Denafrips are exclusive to Willow Tree Audio, we proud to be the sole supplier in the UK of all Denafrips products

www.willowtreeaudio.co.uk

 

[terryforsythe]

Personally, after moving to DSP, I do not foresee ever again using a pre-amp that does not have it. I had the miniDSP SHD, and now have the miniDSP HTx. I like them - high value/cost ratio in my opinion. There are other pre-amps that have DSP, though, that may be worth looking into.

 

[LTig]

.Maybe, I currently do this by using EQ in Roon.

What about using the CD player?

Any recommendations though?

NAD C 658?

 

[DWPress]

Alternately, if you are happy with the Topping but merely want an enclosure that better matches your existing components how about gutting the Topping and doing some DIY (or hire it out) and put the guts in a new box or extend the faceplate? Add some VU meters!

My vintage Topping PA5 is rehoused in a 11" enclosure that matches another in my system - initially it was because I don't use the input selector or volume knob and don't want it to accidentally get changed in my use case with 2 other fixed gain amps in a 3way active XO. Given the overheating problems the PA5 has become notorious for I'm glad I did it for the extra airflow!

 

[pablolie]

I have to admit I have always preferred integrated amplifiers to separates. There's merit to integration - if there wasn't, we wouldn't have as many claiming that active speakers are the end game. So to me, it's about what my preferences are going forward if I rebuild from scratch (which I plan to do within less than 2 years, if the products choices get more varied given my preferences). And my order of preference is:

1. A very capable DAC+preamp with built-in (a) headphone amp (b) configurable sub out (c) solid online streaming support.

2. A fully stand alone active speaker with all capabilities above. My concern there is ongoing streaming service support. We have all seen devices that start losing features over years.

3. Integrated amp combining all of the above. Except I don't want a phono input ever (invest the $ into the other components) and perhaps not even analog inputs. I loved the NAD D7050 concept.

A traditional preamp is something I'd never consider ever again.

 

[DWPress]

Integrated is fine but the one major drawback is if one part of it goes to hell it often takes other functionality with it. I've got plenty of old integrated gear in the closet I keep meaning to get to and fix. Separates are easier to swap out and I have space to put them and run ICs hidden.

My fantasy preamp has digital (including USB) and a couple analog inputs (with SOTA ADC) with digital output that is attenuated with the pre and not pass-through. Of course it has a solid knob and gorgeous display too.

We all have our path in audio and various gear chains to make tolerable noise emanate from transducers. It's part of the fun.

 

[tonapo]

What about using the CD player?

I am not sure what you mean? My Cambridge Audio CXC is a transport only.

NAD C 658?

I think I had dismissed this very quickly back when amir reviewed it. I will do a bit of reading, thanks for the recommendation!

A traditional preamp is something I'd never consider ever again.

Understood! I might go this rout at some point in the future, not right now though.

Integrated is fine but the one major drawback is if one part of it goes to hell it often takes other functionality with it. I've got plenty of old integrated gear in the closet I keep meaning to get to and fix. Separates are easier to swap out and I have space to put them and run ICs hidden.

That is my position too, and the main reason (other than cost, and functions I would not use) I am cautious about something like the NAD M66.

We all have our path in audio and various gear chains to make tolerable noise emanate from transducers. It's part of the fun.

Yes agreed.

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

Could the Quad Artera analogue pre-amp work for you?

 

[LTig]

I am not sure what you mean? My Cambridge Audio CXC is a transport only.

Well, you wrote: I would be using with two sources, Cambridge Audio CD player and a Holo Cyan 2 DAC. Do you feed the DAC from the CXC (source 1) and your PC (source 2) and then connect the DAC to the Pre90?

 

[GaryD]

Could the Quad Artera analogue pre-amp work for you?

I'm in the same position as the O/P. I have a diy-build Stereo Coffee & want to find something different/hopefully better. FWIW, Harley Lovegrove of Sibelius speakers likes the Topping, & also the Quad Artera.