Question about choosing DAC and so on

[SweetStone]

Are you running Hifiman XX?

Yes. I'm Using 789+Edition XX with XLR cable.

 

[TomB19]

Tom's opinion......

Assuming there isn't a fault with one of your components (seems extremely unlikely to me), I think it's safe to say this about your lack of detail problem:

- It's not your headphones. The HF XX are amazing.
- It's not your amp. The 789 is as good as it gets.
- You could upgrade your DAC but it would be barely noticeable (at most), you'd have to get one of the best DACs going to upgrade, and it probably wouldn't be a satisfying way to spend money.

That brings us to the source.

- I suggest making sure the PC output is configured to be bit perfect. Problems here can really spoil things.
- Try some different source material.
- Understand the limits of 70-90s source material.
- Try to understand the human race is only capable of a finite quantity of audio fidelity and you are at the leading edge.
- Equalize with the goal of a smoother, warmer, experience.

 

[Fluffy]

- It's not your headphones. The HF XX are amazing.

Don't be so sure. The Edition XX have it's share of issues: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/hifiman/edition-xx-massdrop/

 

[TomB19]

HI Fluffy.

Here is a quote from your linked article.

"That peak is audible as a sharp ‘edge’ in the music. The same (but slightly less objectionable) can be heard in most HIFIMAN headphones. It is also the reason why these headphones sound ‘highly detailed’ and ‘fragile’. Treble extension is excellent and most likely extends beyond 30kHz."


Can you help me understand how a set of planars, released in the last year or so, described as "highly detailed", are holding back detail from 80s recordings?

 

[TomB19]

Don't be so sure.

I've been meaning to ask: Do you ever rub an acetate strip on yourself to convert your headphones into electrostats?

I respect and really enjoy your screen name.

 

[SweetStone]

Tom's opinion......

Assuming there isn't a fault with one of your components (seems extremely unlikely to me), I think it's safe to say this about your lack of detail problem:

- It's not your headphones. The HF XX are amazing.
- It's not your amp. The 789 is as good as it gets.
- You could upgrade your DAC but it would be barely noticeable (at most), you'd have to get one of the best DACs going to upgrade, and it probably wouldn't be a satisfying way to spend money.

That brings us to the source.

- I suggest making sure the PC output is configured to be bit perfect. Problems here can really spoil things.
- Try some different source material.
- Understand the limits of 70-90s source material.
- Try to understand the human race is only capable of a finite quantity of audio fidelity and you are at the leading edge.
- Equalize with the goal of a smoother, warmer, experience.

Thanks to your advice. Now I try to equalizing FR variously to find tone that better suit for me. Of course, I will equalize with Innerfidelity's.
And I think that maybe I want better instruments location in space. If it is the case, I will equalize again to that and Unless I can find answer with EQ, I will consider purchasing Arya. I heard Arya has better sound stage and fantastic location in space.
And I think my source is not problem, Maybe

 

[Fluffy]

Mr @TomB19 , your jokes are getting a little too edgy, I suggest you tone it down.

"That peak is audible as a sharp ‘edge’ in the music. The same (but slightly less objectionable) can be heard in most HIFIMAN headphones. It is also the reason why these headphones sound ‘highly detailed’ and ‘fragile’. Treble extension is excellent and most likely extends beyond 30kHz."

Can you help me understand how a set of planars, released in the last year or so, described as "highly detailed", are holding back detail from 80s recordings?

This is a bit cherry picking, isn't it? yes, they have their advantages and disadvantages, like everything else. Here are other quotes that speaks to the contrary -

In the FR measurement:

The 5dB dip from 2kHz to 5kHz lowers the sense of ‘presence/clarity’ of voices a tiny bit which makes the mids just slightly and pleasantly ‘laid back’.

In the THD graph:

The Distortion spike around 6kHz is real though and reaches an audible 2%. This and the treble peak are responsible for the sharpish ‘edge’.

Under the CSD graph:

this looks quite messy. Even to the point you start to wonder if this would be audible in a negative way. It looks as though the membrane loves to vibrate at a lot of frequencies and simply has so much fun moving it doesn’t want to stop. At 5kHz there is a resonance showing. There is some short lived ringing between 16 and 20kHz.

Under the spectrum plot:

Well, this looks messy as well to the point where one wonders how audible this all is. The observant folks amongst us will notice that the green parts are down -20dB and the blue parts are already -40dB down. This means that the signal doesn’t die out as fast as with dynamic headphones. ... It looks like these large membranes that have little to no acoustical/mechanical damping simply LIKE to vibrate at almost all frequencies once a signal has stopped.

In the step response:

The treble peak is kind of distracting from the finer qualities of this headphone. It is safe to say that without this peak the sound would be very good, realistic and very smooth in the treble.

Last thing, and I've already said it in this thread – "detail" is a vague term that can be interpreted and affected by a lot of things. I'm not sure what SweetSone is thinking about when he says he needs more detail, and It may be different from what you or I think.

 

[TomB19]

Mr @TomB19 , your jokes are getting a little too edgy, I suggest you tone it down.

I will admit my electrostatic discharge joke was a bit shocking.

 

[SweetStone]

Mr @TomB19 , your jokes are getting a little too edgy, I suggest you tone it down.


This is a bit cherry picking, isn't it? yes, they have their advantages and disadvantages, like everything else. Here are other quotes that speaks to the contrary -

In the FR measurement:

In the THD graph:

Under the CSD graph:

Under the spectrum plot:

In the step response:


Last thing, and I've already said it in this thread – "detail" is a vague term that can be interpreted and affected by a lot of things. I'm not sure what SweetSone is thinking about when he says he needs more detail, and It may be different from what you or I think.

I said I want more detailed sound. This 'detailed sound' means Clarity of Sound and accurate instruments location in soundstage in my thought. While I listened my favorite music(Pink Floyd's Time, Comfortably Numb, etc) a few hours ago, I think that I didn't clarity of sound. It was great for me. I just had thirst for Expression of instruments in soundstage. When I listened to alarm from every direction in the first part of 'Time', it was a little insufficient. Clarity was not a matter. And it manifests.

Sorry for my word that couldn't make the point clear...
I deluded myself and it was lack of my expressiveness.

 

[Fluffy]

Thanks for the explanation, but I still think using subjective terms leads to misunderstandings. I'm not blaming you in being unclear, just describing the situation. I think you were given a lot of options to explore, and you should try them out and decide for yourself what works. You are welcome to come back and share what worked for you.

 

[SweetStone]

Thanks for the explanation, but I still think using subjective terms leads to misunderstandings. I'm not blaming you in being unclear, just describing the situation. I think you were given a lot of options to explore, and you should try them out and decide for yourself what works. You are welcome to come back and share what worked for you.

Umm... I believe it is because I'm not good at english. I tried hard to explain what I want to say but my unskilled english seized my ankle
Anyway, What I have wanted is not more clarity of sound like violin, but instrument separation like LCD-2. I like Edition XX's tone but I think instruments are agglomerate a little bit. Is this because the soundstage of XX is a little narrow? Yet I'm indecisive..

 

[raistlin65]

Umm... I believe it is because I'm not good at english. I tried hard to explain what I want to say but my unskilled english seized my ankle
Anyway, What I have wanted is not more clarity of sound like violin, but instrument separation like LCD-2. I like Edition XX's tone but I think instruments are agglomerate a little bit. Is this because the soundstage of XX is a little narrow? Yet I'm indecisive..

I don't think your English is at fault

I think it is very hard (if not impossible) to find that one perfect headphone that suits us. And certainly impossible to find a headphone that sounds perfect with all music, as the imperfections in the frequency response and differences in soundstage of good headphones can be very good with one piece of music and not so good with another.

For example, while I love the very wide soundstage of the AKG K7 series with some music, with the way other music is mastered, the soundstage is too wide making the music sound either surreal or like the instruments are split to wide left or right with nothing in the center.

Another example. When listening mostly to lead guitar in a song, I sometimes enjoy the sound of Grados because of how they define the guitar. But if the bassline is what I'm listening to more, and I want to feel that beat in the music? No Grados for me. For that, I want a headphone with some warmth.

 

[Magnifico]

@SweetStone: DT1990 is FAR better than DT770....finally those are Tesla drivers....a different world. I hear a difference any day between closed and open. For music there is no way beside open headphones. So DT770 would never had a chance. So If you liked those....I really think you´ll love DT1990. DT1990 is essentially half open seeing the cups.

BTW some don´t hear a difference (vs DT990)....I don´t have any clue how they can say that. Maybe their gear is not nearly capable of feeding the DT1990. I don´t know. I don´t get it. But wanted to let you know that there seem to be people serious about not hearing much of a difference between DT1990 and DT990.

As said before BEWARE of the beyerdynamic hump. It does polarize people. Some just can´t stand it.
Filter is made for this, see before. DT1990 is power hungry just like any beyerdynamic but your THX will easily manage that.
DT1990 is capable of anything for me....If I was to pick a weakness....it would be metal/rock at higher volume....the enormous power in the highs can be challenging.

 

[TomB19]

I tried hard to explain what I want to say but my unskilled english seized my ankle

Don't sweat it. I'm sure many of us are wearing uncomfortable ankle bracelets.

 

[SweetStone]

I don't think your English is at fault

I think it is very hard (if not impossible) to find that one perfect headphone that suits us. And certainly impossible to find a headphone that sounds perfect with all music, as the imperfections in the frequency response and differences in soundstage of good headphones can be very good with one piece of music and not so good with another.

For example, while I love the very wide soundstage of the AKG K7 series with some music, with the way other music is mastered, the soundstage is too wide making the music sound either surreal or like the instruments are split to wide left or right with nothing in the center.

Another example. When listening mostly to lead guitar in a song, I sometimes enjoy the sound of Grados because of how they define the guitar. But if the bassline is what I'm listening to more, and I want to feel that beat in the music? No Grados for me. For that, I want a headphone with some warmth.

Thanks to your kind words! After hearing this, I realize again that something natural. I will have to my heart set on finding the best headphone for my favorite genres. But if my greed is too huge, unfortunately, I gonna collect several optimized headphones for each genres. I have to equalize Edition XX and control my greed first

 

[Magnifico]

If you are looking for detail....there a lot of good headphones but it is told over and over again.....nothing is as analytical, clean and detailed like the DT1990 in it´s price range. Other headphones with similar price tags have their strength. Especially the Sennheiser 6xx stuff is know for excellent voice clarity topping the DT1990 clearly in this regards.

But those aren´t cheap and the HE XX are not that bad....I´ve never read or heard they´d be lacking in detail.
But If you really need to climb that mountain...look no further and try out the DT1990.

 

[SweetStone]

Don't sweat it. I'm sure many of us are wearing uncomfortable ankle bracelets.

Your two sentences make me feel at ease. Thx man

 

[SweetStone]

nothing is as analytical, clean and detailed like the DT1990 in it´s price range.

But If you really need to climb that mountain...look no further and try out the DT1990.

Your words will make me listen DT1990 If I want a pleasant stimulus, I must go to headphone shop and just listen it.
Thx to your words!

 

[Magnifico]

Hope it works out for you
ASK which pads there are on the headset....it really matters (slightly).
See that in that shop you´re listening without the filter wich tames the highs a little.

 

[SweetStone]

Hope it works out for you
ASK which pads there are on the headset....it really matters (slightly).
See that in that shop you´re listening without the filter wich tames the highs a little.

Okay. kind man