Ralf Stocker
Active Member
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2019
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Pretty much fresh air for 1290 bugs!Hey ! At no extra cost you get included the cherry-colored PCB !View attachment 20668
Pretty much fresh air for 1290 bugs!Hey ! At no extra cost you get included the cherry-colored PCB !View attachment 20668
Why some dacs have the full set of measurements, while others only 2 or 3 test?
Is Amir biased somehow?
Why some dacs have the full set of measurements, while others only 2 or 3 test?
Is Amir biased somehow?
[Full disclosure: I'll admit I'm a little biased as I provided the units for review; also, this is my first post so be nice ; ) ]
Another very informative review by Amir, and I think it highlights the value of the reviews he does. Some of my take-aways:
- The specs for this device promoted on the website, mainly the 124dB SNR and THD+N, seem corroborated in the measurements, which is always nice to see.
- I was really interested in seeing whether any power related spikes would show up, because the pics of the power supply I've seen did look really "light" (to use Amir's term). Good to see things are all clean, and I would give credit to proper design here (regulars on this forum know you can't always take this for granted).
- I dunno if some of the underwhelming results of Amir's testing is a fault with my particular item, oversights in design, or a mix of both, but I think it shows the importance of the extended testing that Amir performs. This will help keep manufacturers informed, honest and on their toes, and hopefully we ALL benefit from this.
- Regarding the criticism over the case: I certainly agree it's not anything fancy (to say it lightly, some simple labeling would have been nice...), and yes there are expectations for this price range, but I (emphasizing the "I") feel like some of the criticism is unfair. I do believe that the company has (for better or for worse) decided to go with this style of casing for many of their products and would think they put in some effort here to finding a casing style that's flexible enough for their various needs, etc. I think this is the case (pun introduced accidentally) with many of the manufactures out there, and I don't find the DAC DAC to be that different in this regard. So you can certainly criticize their aesthetics, as I suppose one could for many of the smallish companies out there, but I don't think it's fair to imply they've putting no effort into this. As for me, if they can save money/time in a utilitarian case and provide a better product, then I'm all for it (certainly more preferred than the other way around), and I'm OK with how the product looks.
I think it's fair to ask that for this price you get something that doesn't look like it was made in someones garage. But we can argue till we're blue in the face as to whether or not a product costing more than $1000 should come in a professional or diy case but at the end of the day, bells and whistles or not, user experience should be considered. The complete lack of labels makes the device not user friendly.We aren't about bells and whistles or fancy cases.
-7dB at Nyquist is almost no filter at all. There are many, many better filters.-The price is ridiculous.
-Undoubtedly a part of "The Beauty and the Beast"
-The DAC has normal TI quality. A little too much distortion. A little bit of asymmetry. AKM is little better.
-I do not understand the rating of the filter. I call that almost perfect (cut off 22kHz). Are there better ones?
Why no photo from the PCB?
it's certainly not all bad, but clipping the FS output is inexcusable and the poor anti-alias filter is almost as bad. No thanks at $200 nevermind the actual price.Regarding the DAC DAC enclosure: We aren't about bells and whistles or fancy cases. We focus on circuit design and sonic performance. The case is also designed to be stacked with our 60V 1kW amp power supplies, Cherry USB, as well as our Stereo Maraschino (STM) Amplifiers.
Regarding "the audio beatnik" review: Our DAC DAC 1 HS won "Digital Product of the Year 2017" (see attached graphic).
Regarding the DAC DAC design in general: The analog signal path is about one inch long. The outputs are double differential, requiring dual DAC chips. Internal power supply reconstruction allows >1Vpp noise without affecting the measurements, plus the external power supply is regulated as well. Sonic performance is outstanding, and testing of full scale square wave reproduction doesn't say anything about what you hear. I'm a huge fan of measurements as opposed to "subjective testing", but the DAC chip was selected among several current market contenders, and some things don't show up in the measurements as far as perceived performance. 124dB+ and 0.0004% THD+N isn't too shabby either.
Regarding the price: The DAC DAC 1 HS (an TL "tube like" version) was lowered to $990 (LIST) about half a year ago. We occasionally sell near-perfect condition demos for $690 and sometimes lower in light of our new 130dB+ DAC DAC 2 HS and HSV (analog pot controlled digital attenuation, see attached photo).
-Tommy O
Regarding the DAC DAC enclosure: We aren't about bells and whistles or fancy cases. We focus on circuit design and sonic performance. The case is also designed to be stacked with our 60V 1kW amp power supplies, Cherry USB, as well as our Stereo Maraschino (STM) Amplifiers.
Regarding "the audio beatnik" review: Our DAC DAC 1 HS won "Digital Product of the Year 2017" (see attached graphic).
Regarding the DAC DAC design in general: The analog signal path is about one inch long. The outputs are double differential, requiring dual DAC chips. Internal power supply reconstruction allows >1Vpp noise without affecting the measurements, plus the external power supply is regulated as well. Sonic performance is outstanding, and testing of full scale square wave reproduction doesn't say anything about what you hear. I'm a huge fan of measurements as opposed to "subjective testing", but the DAC chip was selected among several current market contenders, and some things don't show up in the measurements as far as perceived performance. 124dB+ and 0.0004% THD+N isn't too shabby either.
Regarding the price: The DAC DAC 1 HS (an TL "tube like" version) was lowered to $990 (LIST) about half a year ago. We occasionally sell near-perfect condition demos for $690 and sometimes lower in light of our new 130dB+ DAC DAC 2 HS and HSV (analog pot controlled digital attenuation, see attached photo).
-Tommy O
You have to be careful that you get at 20khz not too much attenuation.-7dB at Nyquist is almost no filter at all. There are many, many better filters.
Warm welcome to the forum Tommy. It is always great to see the manufacturer/designer engage with their customers and potential customers on forums, as rough as it might sometime be. Certainly I think higher of your product with your participation.I'm here! My company, my product. I'll be addressing the comments here, but this will take some time, so please bear with me....
Tommy O
Founder
Digital Amp Co
CherryAmp.com
I was so offended by the lack of labeling and the overall design that I didn't consider that. In my use case USB is a must, so regardless of the price it wouldn't be for me. I've not attempted to manufacture a device like this but it would seem to me that it would be a minor cost (please correct me if I am wrong) to include both USB and SPDIF otherwise why limit your potential market? In the case of March Audio's Dac1 choosing USB as your default or only option I think is a good move since it is the more popular option.We (me at least) are confused on this topic of the infeed port(s) :
- on one thread we have @March Audio who - in his DAC1, he has voluntarily omitted the SPDIF infeed, so only the USB one, which is totally coherent with the digital audio market's trend
- here we have an alternative DAC in which only the SPDIF infeed is supplied, no USB
Filter and noise shaping look very similar to ApplePi so it is probably PCM1794's default behaviour. However spikes are obviously defects.@AmpDesigner4444 can you explain the decision to have the filter roll off so little at the top of the band? It looks as if you are using a filter for 48 khz for 44.1 khz.
Most of our customers like the look, too! It's minimalist and elegant in person. I attached photos of the PRODUCTION version. The reviewer was examining a "bang and dent" demo that was sold at a very low price due to aesthetics.Am I the only one who find the case supercool?
This was done for the way it SOUNDS. One of those things that affects the measurements a bit, but this DAC sounds super clean and smooth at the same time. You don't get that with TI's reference design, which is what almost everybody else implements.@AmpDesigner4444 can you explain the decision to have the filter roll off so little at the top of the band? It looks as if you are using a filter for 48 khz for 44.1 khz.