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Review and Measurements of Schiit Yggdrasil V2 DAC
- Thread starter amirm
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Yes and the comments before that. I could understand this kind of talk a few years ago when they were producing junk performing gear. Now that they have learned to buy a proper analyzer and optimize the design is the time they decide to complain this way? If they are this unhappy they should go back to their old days.
Well it's apparently not water under the bridge. I would take it seriously but not so serious.
It is clear to me, watching the video, that there is some animosity by at least one at Schiit regarding good measuring equipment. He seems pissed off that Schiit has gone down the path of "good measurements". I'll give him credit for candor, albeit at the expense of politeness. (I envision him out on a stoop, waving his cane, "get off my lawn ya damn lab coats!'")
And credit to Amir, for your response and willingness to continue testing Schiit products. Well done.
And credit to Amir, for your response and willingness to continue testing Schiit products. Well done.
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As far as performance, they have turned it around, Amir has said as much. They've produced some very good measuring gear in the last couple of years.
Yeah well if 1/2 of the company seems to disregard measurements, that doesn't give me much confidence.
It's really convenient that subjective review are coming out where 3 versions of the Yggdrasil are tested and the reviewer happens to prefer the one that measures the worse.
I'm not saying the jury is out for me personal, their direction just seems more unsure to me now.
My take is. . . I couldn't care less if there's some curmudgeon railing against measurements, as long as they continue to engineer and produce good measuring products. There is room for both, I'm glad they are at least giving us a choice.
Yes, what I don't want is them to stop making the ones with good measurements. So I think we aren't so much in disagreeance. Maybe I'm being harsh, but I've always had bad experiences with them. I was happy when the heresy came out.
I'm actually interested in this "good measuring" r2r that they just put out. I'm just being vocal about my preferences, they can obviously make whatever they want.
IMO he just chokes on giving credit to anyone for revealing problems in their products. Just a bunch of hand-waving to draw attention away from the fact that they used that info to improve the line. There's still also the fact that sadly the subjective buyers market is much larger than the objective side so to save face with that crowd they can't admit to the lessons taught.
In the end it's all much ado about nothing and was actually a win-win. Their products improved and those "in the know" like the members here know the real truth.
Since I'm a tech midget I'd like to present a question.
Mike phoo phoos the standard measurements as having little value talking about noise floors, distortion, etc and makes the comment that the Schiit line of products are different because they focus on time domain issues. So aren't there measurements that can be made to determine "time domain" performance or is this all technobabble and magic dust that can only be optimized with listening done by gold-eared guru's?
All in all a terrible waste of the 54:41 minutes of the short amount of time I have left on this earth. LOL
It is indeed marketing babble. Take a look at impulse response.
Are you sure it's all about you? The reality is the measurements vs. subjective debate has been going on for a while. The Audio Critic was doing battle in this territory decades before you. Regarding ASR prompting Schiit to design better I have wondered if the same isn't true for forum favorite Topping. It's seems they release an amp or dac measured here every other month with higher and higher Sinad using ASR's measurements as their guide. Topping has clued into the fact that it does seem to be all about Sinad here, despite a protest to the contrary in another thread. I don't blame them for exploiting that segment of the market just as Schiit did with the Heresy, but it's ok if Schiit has a different perspective from you with their other products. Topping's focus appears to be to tap into the faith here and has managed to cultivate a band of eager defenders who will pile on dissenters. When I joined, ASR seemed like a breath of fresh air, about as objective as I could have hoped. Now it seems like a cult. This is audio, you're not saving lives here.
The whole infomercial layout of the Schiit interview with the "no class" reference to somebody with Napoleon hands was very unprofessional. Regardless of whom the slight is aimed at it was intolerable from a professional. That slight made me think twice about Schiit and now I will be thinking before recommending the product whereas before up to that very moment I was still recommending Schiit stuff over Topping product. Representing product and having priviledge means there are limitations as per what can be done, said and the rep must be responsible and show good intention.
Saved me a ton of money though not having to do the guessing process while giving me great performance. I probably would have ended up with audio-gd or something instead of my rme adi 2 dac, d90se and benchmark hpa4.
I'm not going to involve myself in the tribal stuff here. I like Amir, and I like Schiit. Don't see those as conflicting.
As for the interpersonal crap, I couldn't care less. These are adults; they can work out their relationship without help from me.
As for the interpersonal crap, I couldn't care less. These are adults; they can work out their relationship without help from me.
The main lesson from that interview, is don't try to represent your company to the world while drinking.
That sounded like shit talk at the pub being broadcast as company PR. Disastrous. In the days when I worked, I'd probably have been sacked for that.
That sounded like shit talk at the pub being broadcast as company PR. Disastrous. In the days when I worked, I'd probably have been sacked for that.
charleski
Major Contributor
Stop right there.
There's absolutely no requirement that you use rapid switching in an ABX test. The reason people refer to rapid switching is simply that this often makes it easier to spot small differences in timbre, that's all. I'm perfectly fine with the idea that you may want to test for discrimination on the basis of other auditory effects that require longer integration times and thus need to listen for longer periods. You can listen to each presentation for as long as you want, there's no problem with that. The only requirements for a valid ABX test are that the volume levels are precisely matched and that the blinding in done comprehensively to remove any possibility of extra-auditory cues confounding the results.
In an linear time invariant system like a DAC's reconstruction filter, the impulse response gives complete information about time domain performance.
Schiit's "comboburrito" filter is just a linear phase filter; there's nothing interesting happening in the time domain. It's difficult to parse all of Mike Moffatt's claims about the filter because a lot of what he says is incoherent or nonsensical, but some of his claims that are possible to parse with confidence are false.
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