Review and Measurements of Topping D50 DAC

[yue]

I've emailed Topping to see if they'd be willing to support LVFS for firmware updates, so those of us using Linux can get updates too. (Any other Linux users here might want to send a note in support of this too. )

not likely at all --- topping does not control the firmware update process. xmos and thesycon do. thesycon does have an app to update firmware for mac, though.

 

[yue]

xmos does have a dfu loader open source. see https://github.com/itdaniher/USB-Au...udio/module_dfu/host/xmos_dfu_osx/xmosdfu.cpp
and https://www.xmos.com/support/boards?version=latest&product=18113&component=14441&page=4

probably you can tweak it to make it work under linux.

 

[amirm]

Thank you, Amir. So, just to make sure I understand 100%: the D50 will just accept any signal "as is" (whatever frequency and bit-depth) and convert it right to analog, correct?

Yes.

 

[nefilim]

not likely at all --- topping does not control the firmware update process. xmos and thesycon do. thesycon does have an app to update firmware for mac, though.

the mac DFU appears not to be for end users, no public download, have to contact them for a license agreement.

has anyone tried the loader linked on github? last thing i want to do is brick my DX7s

 

[yue]

the mac DFU appears not to be for end users, no public download, have to contact them for a license agreement.

has anyone tried the loader linked on github? last thing i want to do is brick my DX7s

even if you brick it you can always run the official windows version to reflash it.

 

[Martin]

I am using JRiver Media Center to play a DSF files through my NUC and I cannot get it setup to correctly play DSF files on my Topping D50. When I play a DSD file through JRiver the D50 displays PCM 352.8kHz 32Bit.

When I play the same file using a Raspberry Pi running Volumio the D50 displays DSD 2.82MHz.

I have read everything I can find on the subject and cannot get JRiver and the D50 to play nice together. I either get nice sounding music showing PCM 352.8kHz 32Bit, VERY LOUD static, or silence.

I have JRiver configured thus:
Audio Device: Topping USB Audio Device [ASIO]
Bitstreaming: None (recommended)
DSP Studio: Nothing is checked.
Device Settings: DSD bitsream in DoP format is unchecked
I am running the Topping D50 driver version 4.14.0
JRiver says Input: 352.8kHz 64bit 2ch from source format DSF

I've tried setting bitstreaming to DSD and it always results in VERY LOUD static. I've tried DoP and it always results in silence.

Help!

Martin

In case anyone else is having this problem...

I posted the question on the JRiver forum and found JRiver must be set to Bitstream DSD and all volumes must be set to 100% - application, internal and system all set to 100. The song will play correctly about every 10th time but I still get static most tries.

JRiver shows the input is DSD 2.8 MHz 1bit 2ch and the D50 shows DSD64 2.82MHz 1Bit. Sometimes the song plays, most of the time I hear it very faintly under the loud static. (I can control the static volume with the D50 volume control.)

I think I need to email Topping...

Martin

Fixed it... The volume must also be set to 100 under the Windows control panel.

 

[Hosehead]

After some head-scratching and a little name calling, I was finally able to do a Windows 10 clean install on my Mac Mini and so here is what I found:

The range of sample rates the Mac Mini offers through Windows 10 differs from that offered by Mac OS (High Sierra). Windows is more "honest" in reporting the frequency rates the Mac Mini can actually achieve:

- High Sierra reports bit depths of 24 and 32, but not 16.
- Windows reports all three bit depths (16, 24, and 32) and will actually let you use them.
- High Sierra lists frequency rates from 44,100 Hz to 768,000 Hz for the Mac Mini, but if your choose anything above 192,000 Hz you start hearing clicks and pops.
- Windows 10 lists frequency rates from 44,100 Hz to 192,000 Hz only, but the sound remains clean even at 192,000 Hz.

Also, although a subjective comment, I have to say the music I played through Windows sounded absolutely beautiful (at 44.1 / 16)--maybe because of the Exclusive Mode or maybe because I was half asleep, but I want to do some serious listening and comparing now.

In case you might be interested, these are the songs I used in my quick test, and they all sounded beautifully:

- The Piper (ABBA)
- The King has lost his crown (ABBA)
- You Make Loving Fun (Fleetwood Mac)
- The Phantom of the Opera (Iron Maiden)
- Sabbath Bloody Sabbath (Black Sabbath)
- Raw Deal (Judas Priest)
- Erebus (Septicflesh)

All full CD quality AIFF format. The CD version of The Phantom of the Opera, by Iron Maiden, has always sounded a little flat and uninteresting to me, so I seldom play it; this time I thought it was better.

 

[wimpie]

Hi,

Since march this year I am working on USB Audio 2.0 Support for OS/2 (ArcaOS, eComStation). For that I purchased a Topping D10.
For this device there is also no 16 bit support according to its USB descriptors. I used "lsusb -d 152a:8750 -v" to obtain these.

Wim

 

[esm]

topping does not control the firmware update process. xmos and thesycon do

You're right, of course, but we're not XMOS' customers, so our best bet is to ask Topping to apply a small bit of pressure from their end.

FWIW, they replied to me very quickly, and seemed appreciative of being pointed at the project, but they eventually punted back to XMOS.

xmos does have a dfu loader open source

Yeah, assuming this is just standard USB DFU 1.1, there are a handful of tools on Linux that can do this, with a little massaging. Plus, fwupd has USB DFU support, so you ought to be able to package this up locally with a manifest and deliver it that way.

Ultimately, though, this doesn't solve the common-user problem; LVFS only hosts firmware images from vendors directly, they don't take submissions from random people. That gives the system a great deal of trust, but means that unless XMOS was actually willing to submit their firmware blobs, it wouldn't necessarily help much.

For myself, I just wound up firing up my Windows 8 VM on my laptop and shared the USB device with it.

 

[Toku]

Hi all,
I have reported the problems that occur in D50. And Topping took place on July 24th update of the firmware as promised. As a result, most of the problems that occurred in D50 I reported were resolved.
If your D50 has problems with some behavior, you should update your firmware immediately.

 

[Ron Party]

Downloaded and installed the firmware upgrade. Works flawlessly. One has to appreciate firmware upgrades that install and work without any hiccup.

 

[yue]

After some head-scratching and a little name calling, I was finally able to do a Windows 10 clean install on my Mac Mini and so here is what I found:

The range of sample rates the Mac Mini offers through Windows 10 differs from that offered by Mac OS (High Sierra). Windows is more "honest" in reporting the frequency rates the Mac Mini can actually achieve:

- High Sierra reports bit depths of 24 and 32, but not 16.
- Windows reports all three bit depths (16, 24, and 32) and will actually let you use them.
- High Sierra lists frequency rates from 44,100 Hz to 768,000 Hz for the Mac Mini, but if your choose anything above 192,000 Hz you start hearing clicks and pops.
- Windows 10 lists frequency rates from 44,100 Hz to 192,000 Hz only, but the sound remains clean even at 192,000 Hz.

similar to the recent firmware update that solved silence after rebooting issue, people have to push manufacturer to do another firmware update that solves the format issue on Mac.

 

[Richard Murphy]

Note that this is a pure DAC. While it has volume control using a joystick to the right of the display, that only controls the RCA output.

I've only just hooked up my D50 to RCA. The volume is really low so I'm running my power amp at about 60% max volume and it's far from loud. 0.00db on the Topping screen, volume maxed out in Windows and drivers have been updated. I previously ran an Allo Boss which has no preamp but I'm pretty sure it wasn't this quiet (on loan now so I can't compare).

The Topping site says this is a preamp + DAC so I did expect more amplification. What am I missing?

 

[nefilim]

I've only just hooked up my D50 to RCA. The volume is really low so I'm running my power amp at about 60% max volume and it's far from loud. 0.00db on the Topping screen, volume maxed out in Windows and drivers have been updated. I previously ran an Allo Boss which has no preamp but I'm pretty sure it wasn't this quiet (on loan now so I can't compare).

The Topping site says this is a preamp + DAC so I did expect more amplification. What am I missing?

power amp at 60% max volume? do you mean integrated amp? what model is it? maybe it has very low input sensitivity

 

[zephyros]

Hi all,
I have reported the problems that occur in D50. And Topping took place on July 24th update of the firmware as promised. As a result, most of the problems that occurred in D50 I reported were resolved.
If your D50 has problems with some behavior, you should update your firmware immediately.

Just update. I can confirm that it fix the no sound problem (happens when I turn of and on the fan plugging into the same outlet).

 

[yue]

Hi,

Since march this year I am working on USB Audio 2.0 Support for OS/2 (ArcaOS, eComStation). For that I purchased a Topping D10.
For this device there is also no 16 bit support according to its USB descriptors. I used "lsusb -d 152a:8750 -v" to obtain these.

Wim

hard to believe people are using those obsolete OSes --- even BSDs are considered outdated in audio world.

 

[Richard Murphy]

power amp at 60% max volume? do you mean integrated amp? what model is it? maybe it has very low input sensitivity

Quite right. Integrated not power. It's a Magnat RV3: https://www.magnat.de/en/detail/index/sArticle/2950862

I gather the 'preamp' functionality Topping are advertising offers no gain. Essentially a function to lower the volume from the Topping?

 

[kazanchel]

Hello, i want to buy topping d50 or topping nx4 dsd. I will use it with computer and headphones. Can i connect d50 to headphones using 2 RCA Male to Female 3.5mm Jack cable?

 

[amirm]

Hello, i want to buy topping d50 or topping nx4 dsd. I will use it with computer and headphones. Can i connect d50 to headphones using 2 RCA Male to Female 3.5mm Jack cable?

Hi there. You "can" do that, and music will come out of the D50 that way but it is not the right solution. There is not enough power to drive headphones out of the RCA jacks and output impedance is too high. As a result, you will get anemic, low fidelity sound that way. If you get the d50, you need to also get a headphone amp. The nx4 dsd has that built-in so you are good to go.

 

[kazanchel]

Hi there. You "can" do that, and music will come out of the D50 that way but it is not the right solution. There is not enough power to drive headphones out of the RCA jacks and output impedance is too high. As a result, you will get anemic, low fidelity sound that way. If you get the d50, you need to also get a headphone amp. The nx4 dsd has that built-in so you are good to go.

Thank you for the answer