Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?

[SIY]

Now, to caveat this, in some cases, ignorant swapping of opamps can significantly degrade performance (e.g., oscillation, RF pickup...), so there can be a CHANGE, which the overly enthusiastic hobbyist might rationalize as "improvement." But unless the hobbyist knows more than the design engineer, the chances of "fixing" a "problem" and "improving" actual performance is about equal to my chances of getting oral from Scarlett Johanssen this afternoon.

Follow-up: I did not get oral from Scarlett Johanssen.

 

[blueone]

Follow-up: I did not get oral from Scarlett Johanssen.

TMI.

 

[Inner Space]

Follow-up: I did not get oral from Scarlett Johanssen.

Yeah, she stayed too long at my place. Sorry.

 

[Robbo99999]

Follow-up: I did not get oral from Scarlett Johanssen.

Damn, she is nice though! I think I like her most in the film "Under the Skin".

 

[rwortman]

a Japanese brand of HiFi and particularly at their midfi integrated amps

Please define the level of noise and distortion that equates to “mid-fi”. This is one of my pet peeves. Audio snobs coined the term “mid-fi” to describe hi-fi gear that was’t expensive enough to be taken seriously.

 

[xaviescacs]

This horse is not dead, it's completely rotten.

 

[Mnyb]

Please define the level of noise and distortion that equates to “mid-fi”. This is one of my pet peeves. Audio snobs coined the term “mid-fi” to describe hi-fi gear that was’t expensive enough to be taken seriously.

It is a bad term in fact invented by the usual suspects I suppose I agree ? , I mean normal amps that people can buy I don’t remeber the numbers they where probably as good as they could be . This was a while ago
They most likely performed better than some high end .

My piont was not mid FI but the temptation to reinvent the wheel and give the impression of constant progress with “ new “ products and that even good normal hifi manufacturers resorts to bad practice or myths if it sells more products. Contributing to the problems.

More recent example . Buchardt audio has made a mk2 of thier s400 speaker and improved their cross over for real actually , but they also thrown in name brand woo capacitors and eagerly shows off this and makes a point of marketing that no speaker in this price class ( there it is again , midfi ) uses such expensive components ?

So to some degree everyone is playing the audiophile game because the myths are so widespread and prevalent that it is hard to avoid doing . The actual matters of fact can turn away your core customers. A very weird paradox.

A story of how the engineers found some more performance and liquid midrange and blacker blacks sound much better than “our suppliers changed their chipsets and we redesigned our product to use these”

 

[Doodski]

Audio snobs coined the term “mid-fi” to describe hi-fi gear that was’t expensive enough to be taken seriously.

My workmates and I used the term, "Mid-fi" as a means of differentiating the price ranges of gear when selling it. We where doing that in the early 1980's onward and it works when describing the various gear and the costs of the stuff. There was no snobbery or denigrating means to the term.

 

[Mnyb]

Please define the level of noise and distortion that equates to “mid-fi”. This is one of my pet peeves. Audio snobs coined the term “mid-fi” to describe hi-fi gear that was’t expensive enough to be taken seriously.

Actually when I was younger I fell for this marketing as I was an audiofool then and believed in expensive cables and everything.

What British and American hifi press did when Japanese hifi outperformed thier boutique cr*p was outrageous and ingenious?

 

[rwortman]

My workmates and I used the term, "Mid-fi" as a means of differentiating the price ranges of gear when selling it. We where doing that in the early 1980's onward and it works when describing the various gear and the costs of the stuff. There was no snobbery or denigrating means to the term.

Mid-price is the honest term, mid-fi implies lower fidelity than hi-fi.

 

[DrZingo]

I agree that you can't blindly change op amps, but there are cases where the designer of the Dac suggest you do change the OP Amps as an inexpensive upgrade.

Cable and op-amp swapping audiophiles tend to want to interact with their equipment, they don't want their object of affection to just sit there. It's a form of animism, really.

I suspect the reason for this from the manufacturer's standpoint is also related to how some recommend dozens of hours of burn-in of their products. "If you're not perfectly satisfied immediately, don't worry - you have just begun the journey!"

 

[Mart68]

Cable and op-amp swapping audiophiles tend to want to interact with their equipment, they don't want their object of affection to just sit there. It's a form of animism, really.

There's certainly something in that.

 

[Purité Audio]

Mid-price is the honest term, mid-fi implies lower fidelity than hi-fi.

Price has no relevance to the actual engineering quality of electronic equipment, just look at ASRs reviews/measurements stunningly good engineering at relatively inexpensive cost.
Keith

 

[Mart68]

There will be some relevance, for example an amplifier that performs optimally with any load cannot be made or sold at low cost. Likewise a loudspeaker with superb measured performance in every parameter will never be inexpensive.

But a DAC? No you can do that cheap.

 

[Goodman]

Cable and op-amp swapping audiophiles tend to want to interact with their equipment, they don't want their object of affection to just sit there. It's a form of animism, really.

I suspect the reason for this from the manufacturer's standpoint is also related to how some recommend dozens of hours of burn-in of their products. "If you're not perfectly satisfied immediately, don't worry - you have just begun the journey!"

Are you saying all op amps are equal and dont sound different? The op amps in a £19 Chinese media player are equal to the op amps in a high grade Dac? Just asking?

 

[TheBatsEar]

Are you saying all op amps are equal and dont sound different? The op amps in a £19 Chinese media player are equal to the op amps in a high grade Dac? Just asking?

Depends on the measurements of said op amps. If they are as good as the other ones, yes, same sound.

 

[SIY]

Are you saying all op amps are equal and dont sound different? The op amps in a £19 Chinese media player are equal to the op amps in a high grade Dac? Just asking?

Generally, yes, but with a significant caveat. The assumption is that the circuit is designed for them, which may not be the case for ignorant amateur opamp swapping, so "equal" may not be an appropriate word- opamps have different functions and are optimized for different things, they're not interchangeable jellybeans. There's a host of very cheap opamps that deliver superb performance when used in engineered circuits (e.g., 5534).

 

[Goodman]

Depends on the measurements of said op amps. If they are as good as the other ones, yes, same sound.

Do the op amps for major companies all measure different according to price ? Has Amir measured different op amps on this site?

 

[TheBatsEar]

Do the op amps for major companies all measure different according to price ? Has Amir measured different op amps on this site?

Are you suggesting that op amps that measure the same, sound different?

 

[SIY]

Do the op amps for major companies all measure different according to price ? Has Amir measured different op amps on this site?

Of course they don't measure the same. Different opamps are optimized for different things. No need for Amir (or me, for that matter) to repeat the measurements that are on every opamp's datasheet.