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Testing a used speaker with REW before buying?

ahofer

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I'm going to pick up a pair of f228Be speakers tomorrow. Used. I want to make sure the drivers are working to spec. I was thinking I should bring my laptop with REW and play white noise in each channel and do a moving mic test. If the response is normal looking, then they are probably OK? I suppose if only one woofer is working that might only be visible in an already falling low end. Any thoughts?
 
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Doodski

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I'm going to pick up a pair of f228Be speakers tomorrow. Used. I want to make sure the drivers are working to spec. I was thinking I should bring my laptop with REW and play white noise in each channel and do a moving mic test. If the response is normal looking, then they are probably OK? I suppose if only one woofer is working that might only be visible in an already falling low end. Any thoughts?
That is a excellent idea. Do a sine wave sweep as well to check for resonance and bad voice coils.
 

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ahofer

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Thanks! I've never done a sine wave measurement. Looking around in the REW guide for that. I presume the gated measurement is the same white noise capture, but with a stationary mic?
 

Doodski

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Thanks! I've never done a sine wave measurement. Looking around in the REW guide for that. I presume the gated measurement is the same white noise capture, but with a stationary mic?
This works well for sine wave sweeps. It does require a internet connection. If you look about online you might find a executable sine wave generator software that does not require a internet connection.
 

staticV3

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I presume the gated measurement is the same white noise capture, but with a stationary mic?
You do a regular measurement sweep, then apply gating to it according to the guide I sent you.
 

MAB

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This works well for sine wave sweeps. It does require a internet connection. If you look about online you might find a executable sine wave generator software that does not require a internet connection.
Doodski, are you thinking just play a sweep and listen for resonances, snaps, crackles, and pops?
If so, you can certainly use REW's sweeeeeeep function.
 

Doodski

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Doodski, are you thinking just play a sweep and listen for resonances, snaps, crackles, and pops?
If so, you can certainly use REW's sweeeeeeep function.
That works too...lol. I have never used/installed REW so I was not aware of that feature. :D Now I know... lol.
 
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sigbergaudio

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Call me crazy, but how about just listening to music on them?
 

Doodski

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Call me crazy, but how about just listening to music on them?
When providing warranty service for KEF and Energy for several years I found that frequency sweeping slowly up and down finds issues like failing voice coils, woofer surround adhesives failing and the braided wires leading into the voice coil having bad solder or being intermittent much better than music does. :D
 

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That works too...lol. I have never used/installed REW so I was not aware of that feature. :D Now I know... lol.
I do like listening to sweeps to listen for resonances, rubbing things, broken stuff, unsecured wires, or lost items that have fallen into ports. For instance, I just have a woofer that had a surround that wasn't glued properly:
I could hear it in the built speaker but couldn't localize what was wrong with the driver, and the surround really laid flat while I inspected it so I didn't see that half the glue was missing from the surround. But gosh could I hear it during a sweep, the surround's floppiness would modulate as the frequency was swept drew my attention directly to the problem. I'm a little embarrassed it took me so long to trace.
1668805761052.png

If you read the post, you will see the unglued surround barely showed up in the frequency response traces compared to the good driver! You had to compare distortion, which had peaks at all of the frequencies where the surround started burping. I guess my point is, I like sweeps and feel it's one of the few audible diagnostics where I trust my hearing.
 

Doodski

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I like sweeps and feel it's one of the few audible diagnostics where I trust my hearing.
Sweeps are fun stuff. I always expected to find something because the inexpensive and even expensive cabinets have issues, the woofers like you showed there have issues and the screws holding them fastened to the cabinet can be even be loose and one would never know without a sweep. Tweeters usually are good or bad I found. Sweeping them was not very productive but woofers and cabinets... yes, they are often bad.
 
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ahofer

ahofer

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So here's a quick nearfield moving mic test of right and left channels of my desktop system (Genelec 8010 with sub). Presumably, if the low driver was busted the 80-3000 area (I think) would dip pretty dramatically.


desktop nearfield MM FR.jpg
 
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Doodski

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I do like listening to sweeps to listen for resonances, rubbing things, broken stuff, unsecured wires, or lost items that have fallen into ports. For instance, I just have a woofer that had a surround that wasn't glued properly:
I could hear it in the built speaker but couldn't localize what was wrong with the driver, and the surround really laid flat while I inspected it so I didn't see that half the glue was missing from the surround. But gosh could I hear it during a sweep, the surround's floppiness would modulate as the frequency was swept drew my attention directly to the problem. I'm a little embarrassed it took me so long to trace.
View attachment 244285
If you read the post, you will see the unglued surround barely showed up in the frequency response traces compared to the good driver! You had to compare distortion, which had peaks at all of the frequencies where the surround started burping. I guess my point is, I like sweeps and feel it's one of the few audible diagnostics where I trust my hearing.
I checked out post #9 that you linked me to. Very nice troubleshooting/systematic fault finding.
 
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sigbergaudio

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When providing warranty service for KEF and Energy for several years I found that frequency sweeping slowly up and down finds issues like failing voice coils, woofer surround adhesives failing and the braided wires leading into the voice coil having bad solder or being intermittent much better than music does. :D

Not sure why you'd expect any of that on a random pair of used Revels though, but why not. :p
 

MAB

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When providing warranty service for KEF and Energy for several years I found that frequency sweeping slowly up and down finds issues like failing voice coils, woofer surround adhesives failing and the braided wires leading into the voice coil having bad solder or being intermittent much better than music does. :D
Agreed, music is just a bad diagnostic, especially for broken things. It does little to excite specific resonances, and you have to hunt among the whole signal for the response you are interested in. So you can't see the forest for the trees, and you have done nothing to enhance the contrast of what you are actually trying to look for. And our ears are desperate for contrast. If you do find something, you typically have a difficult time then tracing what it is.

Seems audio is the last bastion of functional testing as a diagnostic means. And when hifi enthusiasts say functional testing, they don't mean some loopback or transconductance test, they mean play a symphony and see if a listener can tell what they are hearing. There are hifi enthusiasts with bobble head dolls dropped into the ports of their speakers who have no idea, if they ever ran a sweep they would hear that toy ring like a bell. Ignorance is bliss in this case.

The components that make up hifi reproduction equipment gave up on functional testing ages ago, everything is structurally tested, very little is functionally tested. Nothing is test-driven they way we so quaintly think of in hifi, by listening to music...
 
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ahofer

ahofer

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And here's a left channel sweep distortion plot (at head position)
desktop L channel sweep distortion.jpg
 
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Doodski

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Not sure why you'd expect any of that on a random pair of used Revels though, but why not. :p
Lol... You have a good point although after 15 years of diagnosing and repairing and some of those years comprised of an average of 72 hour and 74 hour work weeks I can easily say I am tainted and conditioned to trust nothing. Nearly everything I saw for that period of time was broken, defective or fried. So I have a strong distrust of anything that I would be checking out even if new or in the case of a fine speaker like a Revel.
 
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