The DAC topic confuses me, please help :)

[JustJones]

But is the difference between the ESSxxx or Akxxx and the one from three years ago only in the measurement and I don't hear any difference?

Yes.

So has the end been reached for years?

Yes

And is it basically just about marketing or other features?

Yes, and of course designers and engineers like to push the limits.

Introducing streaming capabilities smoother user interface and DSP is the stuff I look at more than which dac chip it has as long as they measure well.

 

[Killingbeans]

But is the difference between the ESSxxx or Akxxx and the one from three years ago only in the measurement and I don't hear any difference?

Yes.

Does it matter whether I connect via USB or IS2?

Nope:

Study: Is I²S interface better for DACs than S/PDIF or USB?

This is an analysis of I²S interface to see if it is superior to S/PDIF or USB interconnects for audio DACs. From what I recall, it was PS Audio that popularized I²S for external DAC connections. Phillips (now NXP) had invented I²S years early as an internal protocol to route audio. It was...

www.audiosciencereview.com

So has the end been reached for years?

More like decades. As far as human hearing is concerned.

And is it basically just about marketing or other features?

Yes. And build quality, reliability, user friendliness and customer service.

 

[electrolutz]

Yes. And build quality, reliability, user friendliness and customer service.

Of course very important points for users that I forgot to mention!

And thank you for the link "Is I²S interface...", I'll read that.

 

[oleg87]

Keeping people confused and anxious that their system is not delivering its full potential is the lifeblood of the "high end" audio industry. Fortunately for the industry, people are really bad at hearing that two things sound identical when they are listening for a difference. Don't take the bait, enjoy the music. Your DAC has very solid performance.

 

[kemmler3D]

Consumer-grade DACs have been basically transparent for 20 years or more... better-performing chips come out once in a while, but it's like making perfectly clear glass even more clear. Would you notice if they replaced your windows with glass that lets in 0.02% more light? Me neither.

Or maybe imagine a new model year of a car is released. The old one has a maximum speed of 245 Km/h. The new one can hit 252. In practice, you never get a chance to drive that fast and you would probably die if you did. DACs are a lot like this. The differences are not perceptible unless you amplify them like crazy, at which point everything is far too loud for music listening anyway.

The reason for testing them is mostly to make sure nothing is implemented wrong, to see what the output voltage is, to see if it has any weird behavior. But in terms of sound quality it's basically impossible to improve by swapping DACs, no matter what people say in various reviews and forums.

Why do they keep making more if they are basically perfect already? Different features, and marketing.

 

[OldTimer]

That's possible but it's suspicious that you didn't say what the difference was... i.e. Background noise, distortion, no bass, etc. Noise ,frequency response, and distortion are really all there is to "sound quality" when it comes to DACs or other electronics (see Audiophoolery). If there's a difference it's usually noise (hum, hiss, or whine in the background). But you would have mentioned that.

And, you probably didn't do a proper level-matched, blind, ABX Test.

It was fed by same source which is iPad Pro Qobuz app and exactly same tracks/songs.

 

[OldTimer]

That's nonsense. If two DACs sound different from each other, at least one of them is broken. And there is plenty of evidence to back this up. You, however, only have a nice story.

You have to play it loud so you can hear it clearly. If it’s low volume, you won’t be able to hear the difference.

 

[DonR]

The nice thing about getting older is that what qualifies as transparent becomes easier to find and lower in price. As noted above, most DACs became transparent at least 20 years ago to the vast majority of the population and this is born out in double-blind tests.

 

[OldTimer]

What is this? Burr-Brown and Wolfson are two different former manufacturers that were acquired by TI and Cirrus Logic, respectively.

Sorry it was Wolfson

 

[kemmler3D]

to the vast majority of the population and this is born out in double-blind tests.

Indeed... to all humans, and older dogs and cats, but maybe not bats.

 

[JiiPee]

Developing new DACs with higher specs is still profitable, because the vast majority of people buying audio gear are males, and a significant proportion of males fail to apply common sense when it comes to tools and toys they purchase.

 

[kemmler3D]

a significant proportion of males fail to apply common sense when it comes to tools and toys they purchase.

Sure, where's the fun in common sense?

 

[electrolutz]

Thank you everyone for the answers and help with my decision or confusion.

I am happy with my 2-way Fostex/b&c horn speakers (and sometimes when I want more bass supplemented with two active 12 inch subwoofers, closed), DIY was the best idea for me, I couldn't have paid for this quality in a commercial speaker.

Amplifier: I also tested a lot and am very satisfied with the IotaVX SA3 PA3 combination. Tube amplifiers are not for me and I think my horn speakers are not critical when it comes to the amplifier.

And now I will finish the last DAC topic for myself, thank you
I have been super happy with moode audio for years and that was also a good decision compared to systems from professional providers.

And the fact that the majority here says that my audiophonics DAC is transparent and that the implementation is correct now reassures me. Thanks guys

From a technical point of view, I don't understand the question of whether USB or DAC with I²S interface makes a difference, but I don't hear any noise (only sometimes this pop when switching to another radio station or file from the hard drive, that doesn't matter in the end) and I'm happy listening to music .

I wish you all a good time with your loved ones, enjoy life and music. Remember the quote from Frank Zappa "...music is the best!"

Peace

 

[BobbyTimmons]

Which of these toppings, SMSLs... if any, would be better than my setup?

None of them unless you like their user interface or guarantee policy. All modern DACs should sound the same.

 

[Hagan66]

That's nonsense. If two DACs sound different from each other, at least one of them is broken. And there is plenty of evidence to back this up. You, however, only have a nice story.

Try and educate brother rather than being rude. I agree with you but that kinda attitude is counterproductive and just turns folks off. Just my opinion...nothing more nothing less

 

[voodooless]

Try and educate brother rather than being rude.

Usually I try, but some people are just uneducatable .

I agree with you but that kinda attitude is counterproductive and just turns folks off.

Well, at least 14 15 people seem to disagree

Just my opinion...nothing more nothing less

No worries, I appreciate the comment nonetheless. Not every day is my best day, so thanks for telling me I can do better.

 

[kibs]

Developing new DACs with higher specs is still profitable, because the vast majority of people buying audio gear are males, and a significant proportion of males fail to apply common sense when it comes to tools and toys they purchase.

If I started using common sense I'd ditch this hobby, it's both a time and money black hole..

 

[Philbo King]

Perhaps take a look at this primer on DAC specs. It'll at least give you a basis for comparing DACs by chip specs.

Analog | Embedded processing | Semiconductor company | TI.com

Texas Instruments has been making progress possible for decades. We are a global semiconductor company that designs, manufactures, tests and sells analog and embedded processing chips.

e2e.ti.com

 

[Ze Frog]

Bur Brown (TI) & Wolfson (Cirrus) are two different things. Yet, both are known to have somewhat a warm/analog sound with pleasant harmonics. AKM is also warm, but slightly more transparent, more dynamic and precise. ESS are on the north side of neutral, very resolving and bright.

Or at least, in the collective imagination.

Yeah, have to say I much prefer ESS myself. They may measure the same, but the ESS chips tend to really etch top end detail in a more Vivid way. Lol, when I was younger I would have had totally different views, liked the warm sound. Kind of ironic how as I've gotten older I've started to appreciate the highs more seeing as the year's will only remove more of what I can hear up there.