TOPPING HS02 coming

[Dolor]

So does it work with E1DA ADC? The only reason I'd get yet another isolator I know Archimago said that it does, but he originally also said that HS01 worked with it, while I found it to work maybe one out of 20 tries, if that frequently...

I have both, the HS02 connects much better with other devices than the HS01.
Can’t talk about cosmos adc from own experience, but on Discord E1DA Cosmos channel they talk about it and do measurements with it. The hs01 connected sometimes one out of twenty, but my hs02 did it otherwise. Only one connection out of twenty failed to work.

 

[Music1969]

Did you test this? Intona and HS01 both support high speed USB mode, and actually work fine with all other equipment I have on hand... Except for E1DA. Ivan suspected the USB power output being insufficient to run E1DA when I reported this to him, but I'm finding it hard to understand why, at least based on specs.

I can test next week

Although i run REW measurements from laptop (charger disconnected), so don't need to worry about using isolator with Cosmos ADC

 

[Superdad]

Well I have the HS02 in front of me and there is no hub anywhere to see, nothing enumerates at all. I searched the ADuM4166 data sheet and there is no hub mentioned as well. They just reclock to reduce possible jitter, it doesn't mean the chip wastes precious USB 2 resources. Neither in Device Manager nor via USB TreeView the unit/chip is visible - it works fully transparent, like the Intonas.

The Intonas operate completely differently than the ADuM4166.

From the ADuM4166 datasheet:
Upstream and Downstream
Upstream and downstream refer to the directions of the data flow on the bus. Upstream means toward the higher tiers of the USB device hierarchy (closer to the USB host atop the hierarchy), and downstream means toward the lower tiers of the USB device hierarchy (farther from the host). ADuM4165/ADuM4166 include an upstream facing port (UFP) and a downstream facing port (DFP) to allow insertion into an existing connection between a DFP (connecting to UD+ and UD–) and a UFP (connecting to DD+ and DD–).
Hub
A hub is a USB device that provides additional connections to the USB, including at least one DFP. Typically, a standalone hub has a UFP that connects to the DFP of another device, and multiple DFPs of its own to expand the number of devices that can be connected to the USB. The combination of a single upstream connection to multiple downstream connections creates a star topology. Each additional hub connecting its UFP to another DFP of a hub adds a tier in the USB hierarchy. The ADuM4165/ADuM4166 add between one and two hub plus cable delays, and accordingly, for a device integrating the isolator into a UFP or a DFP, two fewer tiers can be added to the hierarchy for that isolated USB port.

 

[MC_RME]

The Intonas operate completely differently than the ADuM4166.

From the ADuM4166 datasheet:
Upstream and Downstream
Upstream and downstream refer to the directions of the data flow on the bus. Upstream means toward the higher tiers of the USB device hierarchy (closer to the USB host atop the hierarchy), and downstream means toward the lower tiers of the USB device hierarchy (farther from the host). ADuM4165/ADuM4166 include an upstream facing port (UFP) and a downstream facing port (DFP) to allow insertion into an existing connection between a DFP (connecting to UD+ and UD–) and a UFP (connecting to DD+ and DD–).
Hub
A hub is a USB device that provides additional connections to the USB, including at least one DFP. Typically, a standalone hub has a UFP that connects to the DFP of another device, and multiple DFPs of its own to expand the number of devices that can be connected to the USB. The combination of a single upstream connection to multiple downstream connections creates a star topology. Each additional hub connecting its UFP to another DFP of a hub adds a tier in the USB hierarchy. The ADuM4165/ADuM4166 add between one and two hub plus cable delays, and accordingly, for a device integrating the isolator into a UFP or a DFP, two fewer tiers can be added to the hierarchy for that isolated USB port.

First I never said the AD chip works identical to Intona. I said they are as transparent as Intona.

Second you seem to misread the data sheet. There is no hub in the AD chip - nowhere. The word 'hub' is only mentioned as comparison reference for the signal delay that the AD chip causes, and further explanations to the difference between the AD chip and typical hubs. This sentence:

The ADuM4165/ADuM4166 add between one and two hub plus cable delays,

does not say that the chip has two hubs, but that the delay time that it causes would equal two 'hubs'. This becomes more than obvious reading the rest of the data sheet where this comparison is given several times:
* Propagation delay 1: This delay is between one and two hub differential data delays as defined in USB 2.0 specification
* Propagation delay 2: This delay is specified to be less than one hub data delay (without cable) as defined in USB 2.0 specification

 

[Vantavimeow]

This completely eliminated my weird electronic buzzing/whining when running a game, if you can hear random shit with your amp cranked then maybe you might want one, if not, don't bother. I think gaming PCs produce a shit load of EMI since they're running way more fans and high power components in general.

 

[misureaudio]

My HS02 arrived today from Amazon

I connected it between an E30 (not equipped with AKM4118) and the USB of the PC in use for measurements.

Multitone signal is played via ASIO drivers by foobar2000.

(It looks like the HS02 is transparent, ASIO Drivers are the original Topping Thesycon 4.86)

Acquisition and analysis is done by means of NI PXI 446x DSA. Analysis software is made with LabVIEW.

A very long buffer (4Msamples) is acquired, a Blackman-Harris 4 window is applied at each acquisition, and 20 linear averages are made.

Spectral estimates reveal a better noise floor with the HS02 in use.

(Looking at the acquisition and averaging process in real time, it looks like HS02 is able to reject some forms of spurious peaky noise, that is otherwise present when E30 is in use)

Not night and day difference in my opinion, but nonetheless a measurable improvement.

No other tests have been done. I'll give a try in some real playback chain in the next days.

With HS02:

Without HS02:

 

[MezeFan]

Will I need this if I already have Topping U90?
I guess I will be connecting as below:
PC -> (usb a to b cable) Topping HS02 -> (usb a to b cable) Topping U90 -> (coaxial cables) DAC
Thanks.

 

[antcollinet]

Will I need this if I already have Topping U90?
I guess I will be connecting as below:
PC -> (usb a to b cable) Topping HS02 -> (usb a to b cable) Topping U90 -> (coaxial cables) DAC
Thanks.

You only need it if you have a ground loop, and ground loop noise. If you can't hear noise, you don't need it.

 

[MezeFan]

You only need it if you have a ground loop, and ground loop noise. If you can't hear noise, you don't need it.

I see, thank you so much!

 

[RichB]

Will I need this if I already have Topping U90?
I guess I will be connecting as below:
PC -> (usb a to b cable) Topping HS02 -> (usb a to b cable) Topping U90 -> (coaxial cables) DAC
Thanks.

Subjectively, the HS02 is altering the sound using Roon and my Raspberry Pi4 endpoint.
I think it is an improvement.

When I come up for air at work, I may do a blind comparison between two Benchmark DAC3s with the same cables and one with the HS02.
There seems to be a benefit with the Raspberry Pi4, though there is no hum there may be other interference.

- Rich

 

[Music1969]

First I never said the AD chip works identical to Intona. I said they are as transparent as Intona.

Second you seem to misread the data sheet. There is no hub in the AD chip - nowhere. The word 'hub' is only mentioned as comparison reference for the signal delay that the AD chip causes, and further explanations to the difference between the AD chip and typical hubs. This sentence:

The ADuM4165/ADuM4166 add between one and two hub plus cable delays,

does not say that the chip has two hubs, but that the delay time that it causes would equal two 'hubs'. This becomes more than obvious reading the rest of the data sheet where this comparison is given several times:
* Propagation delay 1: This delay is between one and two hub differential data delays as defined in USB 2.0 specification
* Propagation delay 2: This delay is specified to be less than one hub data delay (without cable) as defined in USB 2.0 specification

Any technical response @Superdad ?

Agree or disagree ?

 

[pkane]

Any technical response @Superdad ?

Agree or disagree ?

Not @Superdad, but HS02 doesn't show up in the USB chain under MacOS as a hub or as device. It's not acting like a hub.

 

[MC_RME]

I just posted this in our (RME) forum and thought it might be useful here as well:

The Topping USB isolator is based on a new Analog Devices chip that does all the galvanic isolation between input and output while providing full USB 2 speed (480 Mbit/s). No wonder it works with all our USB 2 devices.

But Topping added a standard Mornsun DC/DC converter to also isolate the incoming DC, generating an isolated DC output. Intona does the same, but use their own, discrete solution. The result is that the Topping has 1 nF capacitive coupling between input and output (as specced for the Mornsun in its data sheet), while the (much more expensive) Intona reaches below 10 pF (100 x less) - that's a different class, obviously.

Still in normal use the Topping is sufficient and will make the typical issues in home use inaudible (ground loops and leakage current).

 

[Music1969]

I just posted this in our (RME) forum and thought it might be useful here as well:

The Topping USB isolator is based on a new Analog Devices chip that does all the galvanic isolation between input and output while providing full USB 2 speed (480 Mbit/s). No wonder it works with all our USB 2 devices.

But Topping added a standard Mornsun DC/DC converter to also isolate the incoming DC, generating an isolated DC output. Intona does the same, but use their own, discrete solution. The result is that the Topping has 1 nF capacitive coupling between input and output (as specced for the Mornsun in its data sheet), while the (much more expensive) Intona reaches below 10 pF (100 x less) - that's a different class, obviously.

Still in normal use the Topping is sufficient and will make the typical issues in home use inaudible (ground loops and leakage current).

My Intona 7055 doesn't like XMOS DACs - need to use a hub after Intona (before DAC) - don't need to externally power this hub (and bypass the isolation) for it to work.

My Topping HS02 is fine with XMOS DACs.

Funnily I just got an Amanero DAC which the Intona likes (without a hub) and the Topping HS02 doesn't like.

 

[wyup]

Well I have the HS02 in front of me and there is no hub anywhere to see, nothing enumerates at all. I searched the ADuM4166 data sheet and there is no hub mentioned as well. They just reclock to reduce possible jitter

Does it really reclock and clean the data signal with external supply?

 

[Nathanael]

I need a ground loop breaker / hum reducer for my Fiio k5 Pro ESS (connected to a windows desktop PC and active monitors or headphones).

The K5 Pro (XMOS USB Receiver) is not USB powered and has an external power supply.

Is there any reason to better buy the HS02 or can go with HS01 without the additional power supply isolation and it is supposed to work fine? Is there anything the HS02 would do better in my case?

 

[RichB]

I need a ground loop breaker / hum reducer for my Fiio k5 Pro ESS (connected to a windows desktop PC and active monitors or headphones).

The K5 Pro (XMOS USB Receiver) is not USB powered and has an external power supply.

Is there any reason to better buy the HS02 or can go with HS01 without the additional power supply isolation and it is supposed to work fine? Is there anything the HS02 would do better in my case?

I find the HS02 runs cooler. I’d go for it.

- Rich

 

[Nathanael]

One more question:

The Ifi Defender only breaks the ground loop when I add additional power supply (I sent it back). I suppose there's only data signal isolation and no power filtering for USB power lines. It seems that you have to add extra power supply and it cut offs the USB power.

Can I get the same problem with the HS01? Or does it filters the power lines too? According to the graphics on Topping's Website the Topping HS01 and HS02 should both work without additional power supply with not usb powered devices. But after my expierences with the Ifi Defender I'll rather ask here first before I order the next device.

As far as I understand I can use the HS02 for sure without an additional power supply because it filters/isolates everything (you can see it and the graphic on the device). Additional power supply is only needed only for usb powered devices . For all usb powered devices or only those with higher power demands?

 

[JasonC331]

One more question:

The Ifi Defender only breaks the ground loop when I add additional power supply (I sent it back). I suppose there's only data signal isolation and no power filtering for USB power lines. It seems that you have to add extra power supply and it cut offs the USB power.

Can I get the same problem with the HS01? Or does it filters the power lines too? According to the graphics on Topping's Website the Topping HS01 and HS02 should both work without additional power supply with not usb powered devices. But after my expierences with the Ifi Defender I'll rather ask here first before I order the next device.

As far as I understand I can use the HS02 for sure without an additional power supply because it filters/isolates everything (you can see it and the graphic on the device). Additional power supply is only needed only for usb powered devices . For all usb powered devices or only those with higher power demands?

Correct, it can be run passthrough for powered devices and most low-power USBs, but you can also use the USB C on the input side to filter the DC for USB power devices too.

 

[Deleted member 4708]

Is Topping starting to sell snake oil?

They've been selling snake oil for awhile: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...oll-for-topping-pa5-owners-only-please.33293/
47% of the highly recommended PA5 would agree.