With the impedance adapter the Red has almost perfect Harman bass, so this "theory" is plain wrong. The ear gain region is deliberately below the Harman IE 2019 target to avoid it's shoutiness.
You're overestimating. Some indulgent "boutique" cables reach 2-3 Ohm, simple cables like MD MK1 would measure below 1 Ohm, not enough to cause that big of a change.
Indulge us in a quick test if you would. Add the bass + plug onto the stock cable and then swap that combo with the mic cable without the bass +. I suspect the two set ups will sound a lot more similar (and similar output level) and likely mean the mic cable has a resistance a lot closer to 10ohm resistor in the bass+ jack than the (hopefully negligible) resistance of the stock on its own.
There are multiple potential issues with low nominal impedance headphones with large impedance swings and a high ratio of effective output impedance (which of course includes the 10 ohm 'bass adapter', just a cheap resistor really) to headphone input impedance. I suggest you learn about them by reading this article:GaryH-ates Zero Red is the rest of the name I assume?
In regards to impedance... I'd say we should be taking aim at bad cables / dongles that have wildly varying output impedances. It's not that hard to make products that don't have these issues.
Vs the impedance curve allows for a nice easy method to passively modify bass to taste. Especially useful on iPhone where global software EQ isn't a thing.
One GaryH's con is anothers pro.
nwavguy.blogspot.com
The mics resistance should be not be loading the output though. That indicates an interfacing issue. Yes, it's possible to measure such a scenario, doesn't mean it's how it's intended to operate. See TRRS pinouts:
The world was a more annoying place in 2011, where every amp had varying output impedances that typically weren't provided in specs sheets. The rule of 1/8's definitely meant more when everything had quite large output impedances. My point was acquiring a amp nowadays with sub 1 ohm output impedance is not hard, and plenty of cheap dongles do this.There are multiple potential issues with low nominal impedance headphones with large impedance swings and a high ratio of effective output impedance (which of course includes the 10 ohm 'bass adapter', just a cheap resistor really) to headphone input impedance. I suggest you learn about them by reading this article:
Headphone & Amp Impedance
INTRO: The output Impedance of headphone sources is one of the most common reasons the same headphones can sound different depending on wha...
Yes! With any other IEM I have, turning the volume up beyond a certain point just accentuates the problems. With the red, it’s just “clean” all the way down (or up, as it were). i keep trying to find some aspect about the reds that I can point to and go “Ah ha! Gotcha!” I have yet to find it.
I couldn't have said it better myself. I don't think I've had another audio product with over 50dB of usable volume range.
Many laptops, PCs, phones, AVRs, audio interfaces (even some cables) etc. still don't have low output impedances. There are multiple examples of people using such devices and being puzzled by bass response across the original Zero and this thread, and there are likely more who don't even realize they're listening to these IEMs with their stock bass response boosted, erroneously thinking and reporting the original as way too bassy or the Red as bass sufficient. Then of course there's the bass 'adapter' which will just turn any source that wasn't before into a high output impedance device.
Even disregarding the many cognitive biases skewing such sighted listening (not least 'new toy' bias), direct comparisons between headphones and speakers like this are also confounded by the SLD effect - apparent acoustic source distance influences perceived loudness / frequency response, see Theile's seminal paper. As for the Dusk, the primary cause of its 'shoutiness' is likely actually the excess energy in the 1-2 kHz region (something the original Zero, and many other modern IEMs seem to have for some reason), which some people are quite sensitive to:I just spent an hour sitting in my dedicated listening room comparing my main speaker system to the Red. I have the system EQ'ed to -0.8 dB/ octave linear descending slope, but without the bass boost that @crinacle added on top of it. My floorstanding speakers don't go as low as the Red but it was ok on bass (I use 3rd party tips to reduce the bass of the Red somewhat compared to the original tips).
My idea was to compare both since in theory both are tuned the same, and compare to the Dusk, which sounded much brighter than the Red. Who is right, who is wrong??
(1 hour of switching songs between them, heavy metal, EDM and jazz piano trio)
The speaker system sounds way different than the Red. For starters there is the room acoustics. Even with several 10 cm (4") thick rock wool panels installed, the extra decay is still clearly heard when compared to the dryness of the Red. And we know that IEMs excell in micro details and textures, but I never had them compared this way: same song, about the same volume, swapping back and forth. It was as if the system sounds blurred and dirty compared to the Red. And I am a proud owner of some great electronics and speakers, treated room and FIR room EQ. It does not matter: when the mix is loud and busy, the Red is just clean as spring water. On acoustic music the room reverb does not distract as much though as with studio music like heavy metal and EDM.
And tonality? Surprisingly to me, the Red is a lot closer to my system than the Dusk is. It's very hard to compare tonality with all these differences on top (decays, details, soundstage position). But if the Red has a tiny less air than my system, the Dusk has a lot more treble and sounds splashy in everything.
Super interesting, never thought of using my system as reference to evaluate IEMs. That was a first for me.
And when we factor in how much I spent on speakers, electronics, acoustics, measurements, even the room itself was custom built... Compared to 55 usd of the Red + 90 usd of the Tanchjim Space DAC... It is just mind-blowing.
This had a deep impact on me, made me rethink priorities, reevaluate what was done until now and what I should do going forward, etc.
Resolve uses the foam tips for listening evaluation, instead of the recommended narrowbore silicone. This results in elevated "shouty" ranges, and reduced treble, per his own measurements:
This review still falls in most audiophile traps and subscribes to the myth more expensive = better.
Except it's not diminishing returns as price increases (in terms of sound), it's often no extra return or even less return for more money. Just yet another wannabe YouTube influencer pushing the same 'better layering / separation / audiophile buzzword du jour at higher prices' and 'two drivers mean better bass' nonsense.
Nope, as the measurements show, the responses for all tips are the same in the primary 'shoutiness' region (1-2 kHz) and all generally lack treble extension (of course the ridiculous pseudoscience target apparently contributed to by Headphone Show-conglomerate reviewer @_listener_ pulled out of...somewhere for Crin's post-hoc 'IEF 2023' fix to align more with the untested, unverified fringe hypothesis of his sponsors pushing B&K5128 measurement supremecy with zero valid preference evidence behind it...should be entirely ignored). Higher frequencies are less relevant to shoutiness issues. Someone pointed out it's this 1-2 kHz region that's the real problem area on the recent Red damage-control livestream
Pay attention to the bigger picture. The Red represents a good generalist that inconveniences the reviewer industrial complex. You're in with the big shills when you complain about the Red.
Ironically neither Amir's measurements not all the other ones with the 711 coupler I have seen point to an elevated 1-2 kHz region for the Red. In Amir's measurements it is maybe 1dB, but he normalizes to 425 Hz, had he normalized to 500 Hz, as you always demand, it would be on target (as it is on the one with the impedance adapter). And a typical 711 measurement looks like that below. Nothing elevated there, even below target. So the only measurement pointing to too much energy in that region is the one you dismiss, crinacle's 5128. To me the Red is not shouty and sounds good even without EQ, a rare thing I appreciate a lot, being with the impedance adapter very close to the Harman target below 1 kHz and above that close to oratory1990's, as I prefer.
