What’s the deal with Paradigm speakers?

[watchnerd]

They'll upsample beautifully using Auro 2 or 3D

Dude...they weren't even recorded in stereo prior to 1958....

I already feel like a sinner listening via 2 speakers.

Rudy Van Gelder is cursing me from the afterlife, I'm sure.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Oh, right, I forget about that world.

I can't reconcile surround with my predilection for late 50s / early 60s Blue Note recordings.

Well I happened to be listening to Cannonball Adderly's Something Else as I read this. I certainly dig those. Which got me to thinking, I don't think I've any surround Jazz music. I've wanted to try recording some. Maybe Blue Note would have been even better in MCH?

 

[watchnerd]

Well I happened to be listening to Cannonball Adderly's Something Else as I read this. I certainly dig those. Which got me to thinking, I don't think I've any surround Jazz music. I've wanted to try recording some. Maybe Blue Note would have been even better in MCH?

I think, once upon a time, I had some Diana Krall albums in SACD surround?

I mean it's not Something Else, but it's something...

 

[Aprude51]

The #1 thing in successful speaker business is marketing and Paradigm knows that. So despite their beginnings at NRC, they deviate quite a bit to capture the eye of the buyer.

I guess I was hoping that the explanation was a bit less prosaic, but it makes sense.

PS. IIRC, Paradigm has, like many other speaker manufacturers, been sold and bought a few times in their corporate history. Even during benign trades, the impact on available funding from corporate and commitment by the workforce is significant. Just another thing to consider as we look at storied names such as KLH, Paradigm, KEF et al.

It looks like their most recent outside owner was a private equity firm. They're typically not the kind of corporate overlord interested in building a long-term business, so it's not a surprise to see product quality suffer.

 

[Sal1950]

Dude...they weren't even recorded in stereo prior to 1958....

I already feel like a sinner listening via 2 speakers.

Rudy Van Gelder is cursing me from the afterlife, I'm sure.

Just for kicks I gave the mono version of Marvin Gaye - What's Goin On a spin.
Using Dolby Surround or DTS Neural the output stays mainly locked to the center channel.
Auro 3D spreads a soundstage across the front 3 speaker and throws some very soft ambience to the rears.
I like it.

 

[audimus]

It looks like their most recent outside owner was a private equity firm. They're typically not the kind of corporate overlord interested in building a long-term business, so it's not a surprise to see product quality suffer.

The original founders bought it back from the PE firm earlier this year. In the process, they also got Martin Logan that the PE firm had bought. So, it is now Anthem/Paradigm/Martin Logan in the hands of the original founders.

 

[Xulonn]

I have been very happy with my Paradigm Atom v6 monitors that I purchased in 2012 when I decided to move to expat-land and scale back on my audio system. The Atoms were a classic design with cost-cutting done correctly - good drivers and crossover, and a cheap (but not too bad looking) vinyl wood-grain finish. I brought them to my new home in the mountains of western Panama in a suitcase along with a small Teac A-H01 ICEPower DAC/Amp. They sound excellent in my small room - now driven by a Topping DX7s and a classic Classé Model Seventy A/B amplifier - but bass is still quite limited.

However, even at the age of 77 - and still with decent hearing - the urge for "better" speakers has reared its head, but I am not even considering Paradigm this time - even though the Premier 700F appears to be in the class of speakers that will best suit my needs.

Auditioning is not possible for me here, but reading "between the lines" in reviews - and Kal's positive impressions - is pointing me in the direction of one of Paradigm's Canadian brethren - PSB. If I can swing it in the next few months, I will likely purchase as pair of used PSB Imagine T small towers ($2K new, $1K used) that Kal reviewed 10 years ago. Apparently a lot of them have been sold, but they are rare on the used market - a good sign IMO. I love wood, and I find the design and finish of the Imagine T's to be very elegant and attractive - a factor which can make music sound even better to me on a subjective level. (And I will have no trouble selling my Paradigm Atoms here.)

 

[jonfitch]

Here is a set of the measurements of Paradigm's last generation Signature speakers. They measure very well.

Compare this to their new measurements of the Persona and the B&W 705:

Persona B

B&W 705

It almost seems to me Paradigm went from a flat response in the 2000s to today chasing some variation of the B&W house curve.

As a former owner of the Paradigm Signature S2v3 and the Paradigm Persona B, let me tell you, they sound like they measure. The Persona B's sound horrid (and cost alot more than the S2s).

 

[Soniclife]

I'm hard pressed to think of a loudspeaker company with "good, but ugly" or even "good, but boring looking" speakers that is still alive and kicking.

Harbeth.

 

[BDWoody]

I have been very happy with my Paradigm Atom v6 monitors that I purchased in 2012 when I decided to move to expat-land and scale back on my audio system. The Atoms were a classic design with cost-cutting done correctly - good drivers and crossover, and a cheap (but not too bad looking) vinyl wood-grain finish. I brought them to my new home in the mountains of western Panama in a suitcase along with a small Teac A-H01 ICEPower DAC/Amp. They sound excellent in my small room - now driven by a Topping DX7s and a classic Classé Model Seventy A/B amplifier - but bass is still quite limited.

However, even at the age of 77 - and still with decent hearing - the urge for "better" speakers has reared its head, but I am not even considering Paradigm this time - even though the Premier 700F appears to be in the class of speakers that will best suit my needs.

Auditioning is not possible for me here, but reading "between the lines" in reviews - and Kal's positive impressions - is pointing me in the direction of one of Paradigm's Canadian brethren - PSB. If I can swing it in the next few months, I will likely purchase as pair of used PSB Imagine T small towers ($2K new, $1K used) that Kal reviewed 10 years ago. Apparently a lot of them have been sold, but they are rare on the used market - a good sign IMO. I love wood, and I find the design and finish of the Imagine T's to be very elegant and attractive - a factor which can make music sound even better to me on a subjective level. (And I will have no trouble selling my Paradigm Atoms here.)

View attachment 32993

You've gotten a lot of great value out of those Atoms! I was always a paradigm guy...with my 'newest' ones being the Studio 40's, which to me have always sounded great.

Paradigm seemed to jump the shark a while back, but I always had a secret lust for the Signature S8's.

My upgradeitits pushed me to try the LS50's, which I like a lot, and I'm going to now try the JBL 705 and 708.

Those PSB's look sexy...gotta say. Good luck finding the right pair, and congratulations. New stuff is fun...

 

[Redbeard65]

I have a pair of Studio 60's version v1.1 that I bought new more than 15 years ago. They are still on my primary system and still sound great after all of these years.
A couple of years ago I went back to my local HiFi shop to listen to the newer Paradigm models thinking that I had an itch to "upgrade". I walked out unimpressed and thinking that they didn't sound right anymore. To a point I was relieved that I no longer had the itch to upgrade.
After reading this thread I now know why I was unimpressed.
This discussion board is great.

 

[Thomas savage]

Well I happened to be listening to Cannonball Adderly's Something Else as I read this. I certainly dig those. Which got me to thinking, I don't think I've any surround Jazz music. I've wanted to try recording some. Maybe Blue Note would have been even better in MCH?

Go sit at the bar at the village vanguard NYC .., the music all comes from behind you then.

 

[JJB70]

Harbeth.

I like the Harbeth retro looks, they may not be especially stylish but they're nicely made and there is an honesty about them I think.

 

[GrimSurfer]

I have a pair of Studio 60's version v1.1 that I bought new more than 15 years ago. They are still on my primary system and still sound great after all of these years.
A couple of years ago I went back to my local HiFi shop to listen to the newer Paradigm models thinking that I had an itch to "upgrade". I walked out unimpressed and thinking that they didn't sound right anymore. To a point I was relieved that I no longer had the itch to upgrade.
After reading this thread I now know why I was unimpressed.
This discussion board is great.

This is a very interesting perspective.

I have no doubt that the industry believes that my generation are a bunch of stodgy old pricks who listen to The Grateful Dead on worn out 70s and 80s gear. To them, that explains why we're not selling our organs to buy new gear. (What's the best offer for a Dead Head's organs? A nickel, maybe?)

People of my vintage who don't upgrade just aren't seeing anything that interests them in the amp and loudspeaker department. Most of the affordable gear is utter shite with a logo on it. The really expensive stuff is so expensive that its price is well beyond what we could get for the pristine VW Combi that's under canvas in the garage. (And those can fetch up to six figures, believe it or not.)

A few of us might be stodgy old pricks but many do buy things like DACs, subs, room treatment and calibrated mics. Why? Because they never had these "back in the day" and can be found for the price of a shrivelled liver or spotted lung. Which means that we just might be more progressive and less techphobic than people think.

So if manufacturers understood this, they'd find the middle ground and would profit handsomely from it. But this is unlikely between the thumbsuckers who don't understand and the corporate grey beards trying to round out their 401K while maintaining as low a pulse as humanly possible.

PS. Harbeths are very nice.

 

[Soniclife]

I like the Harbeth retro looks, they may not be especially stylish but they're nicely made and there is an honesty about them I think.

I was assuming someone would defend their looks, they have a retro look, because they deliberately are, and different people like different things.
I'm in the camp that says a manufacturer should produce a focused range and do it well, not produce a range for every whim, so I'm in favour of this approach. They sound good to me.

 

[BDWoody]

This is a very interesting perspective.

I have no doubt that the industry believes that my generation are a bunch of stodgy old pricks who listen to The Grateful Dead on worn out 70s and 80s gear. To them, that explains why we're not selling our organs to buy new gear. (What's the best offer for a Dead Head's organs? A nickel, maybe?)

People of my vintage who don't upgrade just aren't seeing anything that interests them in the amp and loudspeaker department. Most of the affordable gear is utter shite with a logo on it. The really expensive stuff is so expensive that its price is well beyond what we could get for the pristine VW Combi that's under canvas in the garage. (And those can fetch up to six figures, believe it or not.)

A few of us might be stodgy old pricks but many do buy things like DACs, subs, room treatment and calibrated mics. Why? Because they never had these "back in the day" and can be found for the price of a shrivelled liver or spotted lung. Which means that we just might be more progressive and less techphobic than people think.

So if manufacturers understood this, they'd find the middle ground and would profit handsomely from it. But this is unlikely between the thumbsuckers who don't understand and the corporate grey beards trying to round out their 401K while maintaining as low a pulse as humanly possible.

PS. Harbeths are very nice.

Well, there is less to sell us...
Our 20+ year old amps are still going fine, and would be prohibitively expensive for any meaningful upgrade.
Our 20 year old speakers still sound great.
Don't need new cables...
Turntables?...most of us have old ones in the basement that are better than most of the crap out there...

All that said, I don't hear many systems that make me feel outclassed with my cobbled together over the decades rig(s).

 

[JJB70]

I am thinking of getting a new system, initially I wanted to replace my old CD player, amp and speakers but for the CD player and amplifier especially I can't find anything that comes near my nearly 30 years old gear in terms of tank like build and tactile feel. And it still sounds excellent. In the case of speakers, I do think a pair of small bookshelf speakers is more appropriate for my living room than my old floor standers (WAF.....) but even there I really see nothing wrong with my old Castle speakers. I've decided to move my old set up to the office as a "hobby" system and have it professionally renewed and to buy a small form factor multi-function amp and some nice compact speakers as the "working" system in the lounge to take advantage of using my tablet as the source etc. Even my old CD player, despite all the hype around DACs, my early 90's dinosaur has an audibly transparent DAC and somehow I suspect it'll still be working after any replacement I might buy today has long died.

 

[BDWoody]

I am thinking of getting a new system, initially I wanted to replace my old CD player, amp and speakers but for the CD player and amplifier especially I can't find anything that comes near my nearly 30 years old gear in terms of tank like build and tactile feel. And it still sounds excellent. In the case of speakers, I do think a pair of small bookshelf speakers is more appropriate for my living room than my old floor standers (WAF.....) but even there I really see nothing wrong with my old Castle speakers. I've decided to move my old set up to the office as a "hobby" system and have it professionally renewed and to buy a small form factor multi-function amp and some nice compact speakers as the "working" system in the lounge to take advantage of using my tablet as the source etc. Even my old CD player, despite all the hype around DACs, my early 90's dinosaur has an audibly transparent DAC and somehow I suspect it'll still be working after any replacement I might buy today has long died.

Same boat... I just picked up a pair each of JBL 708p's and 705p's as my first attempt at a meaningful upgrade to my 'system' in a long time. I'm very interested in giving them a good test drive. The M2's are on my list of end game speakers, and from what I understand, this may get me as close as I need for a while.