Where is a Topping DAC with PEQ and bass management?

[Yorkshire Mouth]

The impending arrival of the WiiM amp has got me thinking more about this.

I currently drive my amp with the Topping EX5 DAC/headphone amp/pre-amp. I’ll probably be moving to the WiiM amp for speakers, and a WiiM Pro streamer for headphones (it has PEQ for headphones).

If the EX5 had these features, it would save me a lot of hassle.

It does appear to be ‘the future’.

 

[charlielaub]

You will not find such a product because a DAC does NOT include those features! You are looking at the wrong type of component. If you want those features I suggest you instead look for an equalizer or a DSP processor.

 

[Purité Audio]

RME has PEQ, Eversolo streamers have ( DMP A-8) and will have ( DMP A-6) Weiss too of course though way more expensive Wiim of course…
Keith

 

[unpluggged]

You will not find such a product because a DAC does NOT include those features!

Oh, really?

 

[sweetchaos]

Here is Topping’s response as of July 2023:

Ask me questions.

Anything related. I answer them as much as I can.

www.audiosciencereview.com

I asked the PEQ question.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Here is Topping’s response as of July 2023:

Ask me questions.

Anything related. I answer them as much as I can.

www.audiosciencereview.com

I asked the PEQ question.

Many thanks. I know PEQ is niche, but surely aren’t stand-alone DACs niche?

Cheers for asking.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Here is Topping’s response as of July 2023:

Ask me questions.

Anything related. I answer them as much as I can.

www.audiosciencereview.com

I asked the PEQ question.

And then, only minutes later…

WiiM Pro Plus Streamer Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Pro Plus streamer, DAC and preamplifier with Bluetooth support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $219. While the case is plastic, it still "looks the part" as the Brits would say relative to other more famous brands of...

audiosciencereview.com

Question specifically answered - you can include PEQ without any drop in performance, even in a £200 streamer, where you’re not just paying for a DAC.

 

[MCH]

If you follow the various wiim threads you can witness that it took them several months of blood sweat and tears and an army of enthusiastic beta testers to arrive to this, and from what I read in the review thread today, they might not been yet done. I personally don't see topping going through all that tomorrow.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

If you follow the various wiim threads you can witness that it took them several months of blood sweat and tears and an army of enthusiastic beta testers to arrive to this, and from what I read in the review thread today, they might not been yet done. I personally don't see topping going through all that tomorrow.

I’m not sure I understand the ‘tomorrow’ comment.

Do I think they could do it in 24 hours? No, and I don’t think I’ve ever said they could, so that’s a bit of a strawman.

It’s clear from their answer from around 6 months ago that it’s something they’d already thought about at that point.

And if they decided not to tackle it then, but see this from WiiM, maybe they’ll start tomorrow (okay, Monday morning) and it’ll take as long as it takes.

 

[MCH]

I’m not sure I understand the ‘tomorrow’ comment.

Do I think they could do it in 24 hours? No, and I don’t think I’ve ever said they could, so that’s a bit of a strawman.

It’s clear from their answer from around 6 months ago that it’s something they’d already thought about at that point.

And if they decided not to tackle it then, but see this from WiiM, maybe they’ll start tomorrow (okay, Monday morning) and it’ll take as long as it takes.

What I wanted to say is that yes, you are right, it is possible, but it doesn't necessarily mean it is easy. That's all.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

What I wanted to say is that yes, you are right, it is possible, but it doesn't necessarily mean it is easy. That's all.

Thanks.

I don’t suppose any of it is easy. But it does seem…’doable’.

 

[antcollinet]

Thanks.

I don’t suppose any of it is easy. But it does seem…’doable’.

As I frequently said (as a project manager to management) : You can have anything you want. It is only a question of time and money.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

As I frequently said (as a project manager to management) : You can have anything you want. It is only a question of time and money.

Absolutely. Though, going back to my point about the WiiM, they have 4 band PEQ on the mini, which currently costs £90. That’s same amount as before PEQ was added, so it doesn’t appear to have cost them an arm and a leg. The mini launched in October ‘21, and PEQ first appeared on a WiiM around 2 years ago.

 

[antcollinet]

so it doesn’t appear to have cost them an arm and a leg

Money includes development costs.

 

[Rednaxela]

Topping vs. RME vs. WiiM is technically apples vs. oranges vs. bananas.

Quite honestly I find it easier to imagine Topping going the RME route rather than the WiiM one, but in both cases Topping will enter a different arena altogether.

I think it’s just very comfortable for Topping to keep doing what they do at the moment.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Leaving aside PEQ, surely adding a digital crossover and subwoofer out wouldn’t be too difficult or expensive, would it?

 

[fatoldgit]

The problem for Topping (and others like SMSL) is they have a scatter brain approach to marketing/manufacturing DAC's (i.e. they give birth to a new DAC every 2nd week or so it seems).

To be successful with PEQ/DSP you need to invest in a PLATFORM that can reach across a small set of components that are released in a logical and methodical manner, over time.

Take DEQX, DSPeaker or MiniDSP or more recently Wiim as examples (although in Wiim's case, compared to the other three, the longevity of their platform is yet to be seen).

These companies recognize that you just cant knock up DSP/PEQ in a short time so if you want to be successful you need a long term vision, base you efforts on a platform (off the shelf like SHARC or custom) that is extensible and will stand the test of time.

Topping et al, in my opinion, dont have that vision or patience... its all about chasing the next model cause they believe product churn is where it's at.

On a side note, one issue I see with Topping is their fetish with small form factor components. Which is why, for example, you get the D10S and D10B. Any normal company with a logical marketing dept would produce ONE model with both RCA and XLR analogue outputs in a case that supports this... but no... we need two models and because our case is so small we need to use pro audio TRS balanced connections just to make it that much more messy and harder to integrate into a consumer audio customer base (noting MiniDSP is also guilty of this with some models only using TRS)

Sure Topping has models that do support RCA and XLR but in their mind, they will sell more stuff if they shove out a DAC with only one or the other cause they can sell this for $200 bucks cheaper than a combo model.... which to me is false economy, both from a design effort perspective and a manufacturing/tooling effort.


Peter

 

[DLS79]

The problem for Topping (and others like SMSL) is they have a scatter brain approach to marketing/manufacturing DAC's (i.e. they give birth to a new DAC every 2nd week or so it seems).

To be successful with PEQ/DSP you need to invest in a PLATFORM that can reach across a small set of components that are released in a logical and methodical manner, over time.

Take DEQX, DSPeaker or MiniDSP or more recently Wiim as examples (although in Wiim's case, compared to the other three, the longevity of their platform is yet to be seen).

These companies recognize that you just cant knock up DSP/PEQ in a short time so if you want to be successful you need a long term vision, base you efforts on a platform (off the shelf like SHARC or custom) that is extensible and will stand the test of time.

Topping et al, in my opinion, dont have that vision or patience... its all about chasing the next model cause they believe product churn is where it's at.

On a side note, one issue I see with Topping is their fetish with small form factor components. Which is why, for example, you get the D10S and D10B. Any normal company with a logical marketing dept would produce ONE model with both RCA and XLR analogue outputs in a case that supports this... but no... we need two models and because our case is so small we need to use pro audio TRS balanced connections just to make it that much more messy and harder to integrate into a consumer audio customer base (noting MiniDSP is also guilty of this with some models only using TRS)

Sure Topping has models that do support RCA and XLR but in their mind, they will sell more stuff if they shove out a DAC with only one or the other cause they can sell this for $200 bucks cheaper than a combo model.... which to me is false economy, both from a design effort perspective and a manufacturing/tooling effort.


Peter

Perhaps these brands that you have made clear you don't like (on more than one occasion) aren't targeting customers like you.

Take Topping for example, Imo its pretty obvious from their offerings that their target market, is people in the low to mid price bracket. Its also pretty obvious that they are targeting people who's audio source material resides on a computer.

Imo, That market segment doesn't have a lot of use for built in PEQ. They would most likely do it via software in the computer. Additionally a small footprint can also be important, hence why the have DAC & AMP pairs that are stackable! Also, at least for me if I'm going to have to look at something regularly (because its less than 3 or 4 feet from me) it will have to meet my esthetic requirements. For example, I dislike the looks of a lot of toppings models.

 

[ahofer]

You will not find such a product because a DAC does NOT include those features! You are looking at the wrong type of component. If you want those features I suggest you instead look for an equalizer or a DSP processor.

RME has entered the forum

 

[b7676]

Sure Topping has models that do support RCA and XLR but in their mind, they will sell more stuff if they shove out a DAC with only one or the other cause they can sell this for $200 bucks cheaper than a combo model.... which to me is false economy, both from a design effort perspective and a manufacturing/tooling effort.
Peter

So you want an economy dac with a perfect preamp but NO headamp, as to save a few bucks.... and the d10x+L70=dx5 lite is too rich? What about an e70 @ 250$?
Desktop form factor is for heaphones first. That is where the intentional analog preamp goes. You don't touch a standalone topping dac or l30/l50/dx3 etc. basic amp, you touch your mouse or kb.

RCA is anachronistic drag on performance and the fetish for legacy gear is the opposite of sota marketing chase.

Topping is wisely looking for market share from consumer interfaces, crown and behringer amps. Products like the m50 streamer are outside their risk profile to secure components for enduring but haphazard production runs.