Why wireless still behind wired connection?

[Oukkidoukki]

So I have chromecast audio device connected via optical cable to Rme adi fs. This should be bit perfect wifi connection from ipad playing qobuz. However, when I connect ipad to rme with usb cable there is extra finess and depht in soundstage. I would call it more accurate presentation. Why is this? In the end in both cases information comes over the net to both devices. Why technology haven’t overcome this issue? There is nothing wrong in my set up. Difference is minor, but it is still there.

 

[voodooless]

It’s probably your imagination.

 

[abdo123]

Are you using Airplay?

 

[antcollinet]

So I have chromecast audio device connected via optical cable to Rme adi fs. This should be bit perfect wifi connection from ipad playing qobuz. However, when I connect ipad to rme with usb cable there is extra finess and depht in soundstage. I would call it more accurate presentation. Why is this? In the end in both cases information comes over the net to both devices. Why technology haven’t overcome this issue? There is nothing wrong in my set up. Difference is minor, but it is still there.

Assuming there is no change in the data, then any difference is not in the audio reaching your ears.

Look into cognitive bias.

 

[Dunring]

Many wireless headphones are tuned with battery life in mind. Trying a volume matched blind test is pretty easy. If plugged in, your turning the volume up louder that'll account for it. A phone decibel meter is handy for an informal test if the mic is placed in the same spot.

 

[voodooless]

Many wireless headphones are tuned with battery life in mind.

Why is this relevant? We’re talking USB vs Chromecast over WiFi. Both are capable of lossless bit perfect audio upto 24 but 96 kHz.

Trying a volume matched blind test is pretty easy.

Since it’s all in the same DAC, and should be bit-perfect, volume matching is a non-issue.

If plugged in, your turning the volume up louder that'll account for it. A phone decibel meter is handy for an informal test if the mic is placed in the same spot.

As said, this seems irrelevant to the question at hand.

 

[abdo123]

Why is this relevant? We’re talking USB vs Chromecast over WiFi. Both are capable of lossless bit perfect audio upto 24 but 96 kHz.

Since it’s all in the same DAC, and should be bit-perfect, volume matching is a non-issue.

As said, this seems irrelevant to the question at hand.

Ipads don't support Chromecast (except the youtube app) and Airplay changes the high frequencies a bit. it's several steps above Bluetooth but i rather use an Apple TV so the music is directly played from it instead of streamed from my phone.

 

[voodooless]

Ipads don't support Chromecast (except the youtube app) and Airplay changes the high frequencies a bit. it's several steps above Bluetooth but i rather use an Apple TV so the music is directly played from it instead of streamed from my phone.

Quboz does support Chromecast on iOS:

On iOS (as on Android), the Qobuz app is compatible with Google cast/Chromecast built-in, i.e. you can stream Qobuz in Hi-Res to devices compatible with this service (in 24-bit at 96 kHz in most cases and up to 24-bit at 192 kHz on some devices).

In fact, most streaming apps do, not just YouTube.

 

[Oukkidoukki]

Are you using Airplay?

No. Chromecast works in ipad in certain apps like youtube, qobuz, tidal and so on. One of my dacs shows 24 bit 96 khz in display when I throw info over the air to chromecast audio device so it is bit perfect and wifi connection. Still I hear difference. Someone mentioned headphones, no headphones, using speakers. Someone mentioned listening bias. People with similar set ups might wanna chime in and maybe conclusongs can be drawn.

 

[Jimbob54]

Check that your chromecast isn't reducing the output - use the Google home app to look at its audio settings too, make sure tone controls are off.

 

[notsodeadlizard]

So, you know your installation sounds better to you in a wired configuration.
Well, listen to what sounds best to you and do not try to look for answers to very complex global questions.

Why your installation sounds better to you in a wired configuration?
Because (and no one will answer you better).

In general, a data link with less interference and less bandwidth contention is better for the data streaming.
The exposure of the channel to external influences and competition for the medium cause the need for such complex protocols and layered stacks that the details of their implementation become endless.
But if you carefully look at what happens, for example, in wired connections of a relatively low (Ethernet) level, you will see that everything here is far from being as simple as it seems. All this would not exist if it were not needed by anyone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_over_Ethernet
And that's enough.

 

[voodooless]

Why your installation sounds better to you in a wired configuration?
Because (and no one will answer you better).

In general, a data link with less interference and less bandwidth contention is better for the data streaming.

Maybe… but we have several hundred Mbps of usable bandwidth even with WiFi nowadays, and if bandwidth is not enough, audio just stops, it doesn’t get worse, at least not for things like Chromecast.

The wireless data links are reliable and large enough to accommodate a little audio stream.

The exposure of the channel to external influences and competition for the medium cause the need for such complex protocols and layered stacks that the details of their implementation become endless.

It’s complex, so what?

But if you carefully look at what happens, for example, in wired connections of a relatively low (Ethernet) level, you will see that everything here is far from being as simple as it seems. All this would not exist if it were not needed by anyone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_over_Ethernet
And that's enough.

Again, non of this explains why there would be a difference.. As for your audio over Ethernet wiki link, that’s not relevant here since Chromecast uses none of these protocols.

Does a PDF file loaded over WiFi look different than over LAN?

 

[notsodeadlizard]

Maybe… but we have several hundred Mbps of usable bandwidth even with WiFi nowadays, and if bandwidth is not enough, audio just stops, it doesn’t get worse, at least not for things like Chromecast.

The wireless data links are reliable and large enough to accommodate a little audio stream.

It’s complex, so what?

Again, non of this explains why there would be a difference.. As for your audio over Ethernet wiki link, that’s not relevant here since Chromecast uses none of these protocols.

Does a PDF file loaded over WiFi look different than over LAN?

Yes, it's different because the delays caused by retransmits of broken packets, for example, in the case of transferring pdf files, are far from being as significant as when transferring streaming data, because additional buffering and its management appear, because all this complicates the low-level timing, because all this ultimately plays some role.
The principle "what is simpler and better meets the requirements of the task" always works.

But here something else is fundamentally important - you know what sounds best to you.
And that's enough.

 

[voodooless]

Yes, it's different because the delays caused by retransmits of broken packets, for example, in the case of transferring pdf files, are far from being as significant as when transferring streaming data, because additional buffering and its management appear, because all this complicates the low-level timing, because all this ultimately plays some role.
The principle "what is simpler and better meets the requirements of the task" always works.

Well, yes there is some buffering involved, even with loading the PDF. But so what…? this has been working fine for decades, and would not cause sound degradation, it would just stop. Again, this explains nothing.

But here something else is fundamentally important - you know what sounds best to you.
And that's enough.

It’s absolutely not, and the whole message this site tries to give is that you actually don’t know what sounds best. Your mind plays tricks on you all the time, and things that seem obvious as first, are in reality far from it.

This is exactly how people get home with a $ 1000 power cable Ignorance is bliss…

 

[Oukkidoukki]

Yeah, I know what sounds best for me, but it is not enough. First, I would like to get rid of wires. Second, I would like to know why there is difference. Both, ipad and chromecast get info over the air ( net ) and then digitally to dac. Someone mentioned google home app and settings for chromecast audio. They are fine, no tone controls there.

 

[BDWoody]

Second, I would like to know why there is difference.

Are you even willing to entertain the idea that it might just exist in your head?

It seems you are ignoring the answer that is most obvious and most likely.

 

[Jimbob54]

Yeah, I know what sounds best for me, but it is not enough. First, I would like to get rid of wires. Second, I would like to know why there is difference. Both, ipad and chromecast get info over the air ( net ) and then digitally to dac. Someone mentioned google home app and settings for chromecast audio. They are fine, no tone controls there.

Chromecast Audio do have tone controls. Do you mean they are set to zero? And is volume at max?

 

[Oukkidoukki]

I don’t think it is in my head. But I am willing to admit I was wrong if many people here do similar tests and most come to different conclusong. What comes to tone controls…I think in ipad you only have volume. Your pic is from android phone. Volume has been full. And like I said the difference is in depht and finess of bass and instruments. I cant describe it as eq difference.

 

[Jimbob54]

I don’t think it is in my head. But I am willing to admit I was wrong if many people here do similar tests and most come to different conclusong. What comes to tone controls…I think in ipad you only have volume. Your pic is from android phone. Volume has been full. And like I said the difference is in depht and finess of bass and instruments. I cant describe it as eq difference.

Change your sound settings - iPhone & iPad - Google Nest Help

You can change the audio settings of your Google Nest or Home speakers or displays in the Google Home app. You can also change the audio settings of the following Chromecast devices:

support.google.com

For a Nest speaker you need to go all the way into settings- audio- for a CCA I think like on Android you just need to click on the slider icon on the volume wheel screen to get EQ.

 

[Jimbob54]

But I am willing to admit I was wrong if many people here do similar tests and most come to different conclusong

Thats not really how it works around here....

Rule things out for yourself where possible before asking the world to prove you wrong.

Edit- also, do we know if Ipad playing qobuz- USB to DAC IS bit perfect or does IOS resample to 48khz