Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

[Redheart]

Yes, that's the major downside of this PA5 amp. Together with the matching DAC E50, even in balanced mode, the volume level maxed out is not enough to sound good with certain albums, like acoustic stuff, vintage classical...
Speaker are reasonably efficient 88db.
I must now find a suitable preamp to boost the front end!
With modern recordings, no problem though.

 

[vkvedam]

I did and I use this:
2-Way Amp Amplifier Receiver to 1 One Pair of Speakers Selector Switch Switcher Splitter Combiner https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0796KGVX...abc_0W2T2HER2XV0SEYKXHNJ?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

I meant line inputs, this is for driving the speakers from the receiver itself

 

[bsas]

I meant line inputs, this is for driving the speakers from the receiver itself

Well, you have a receiver that has line outs? If so, just buy a RCA splitter.
This box is for receivers that don't have line out, so, at the end you have "two amps" (PA5 and the receiver itself).

 

[pma]

Yes, that's the major downside of this PA5 amp.

The lower gain of PA5 (19.5dB) is the result of the SINAD wars here. You then get the magic 105 dB. If the gain was the usual 26 dB, then SINAD at 5W/4ohm would fall to 99.5dB and then there are competitors. I hope at least some readers are able to realize this.

 

[ModDIY]

Maybe try this:

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[Paco De Lucia]

I have found the gain easily enough for normal loud listening levels with unbalanced DX3 pro+ as the pre amp

 

[Lambda]

Yes, that's the major downside of this PA5 amp. Together with the matching DAC E50, even in balanced mode, the volume level maxed out is not enough to sound good with certain albums, like acoustic stuff, vintage classical...

Looks like your using it wrong.
The E50 can dive the PA5 into clipping.

So maybe your recording is not leveled right in this case just add digital gain.
Or if it alredy peaks at ~ 0dBFS the amp has just not enough output voltage for your application

 

[ceausuc]

Yes, that's the major downside of this PA5 amp. Together with the matching DAC E50, even in balanced mode, the volume level maxed out is not enough to sound good with certain albums, like acoustic stuff, vintage classical...
Speaker are reasonably efficient 88db.
I must now find a suitable preamp to boost the front end!
With modern recordings, no problem though.

are you sure this amp can take a source that outputs 8-10V ?

 

[Redheart]

Looks like your using it wrong.
The E50 can dive the PA5 into clipping.

So maybe your recording is not leveled right in this case just add digital gain.
Or if it alredy peaks at ~ 0dBFS the amp has just not enough output voltage for your application

Lol, what am I doing wrong?! i use Roon, and i am perfectly aware of normalizing or not my bit perfect content.
Maybe you are never playing content that are not very hard compressed, or just modern recordings. But i have a somewhat different library that include those. One exemple is Uakti/Philip Glass colab, agua de Amazonia.

Yes with modern recordings there is no problem, i get enough sound pressure. And yes i have to resort to amplify in Roon the few CDs that have not enough oomph...
But what a pain.. just give me a preamp and i will be fine!

 

[mike70]

The lower gain of PA5 (19.5dB) is the result of the SINAD wars here. You then get the magic 105 dB. If the gain was the usual 26 dB, then SINAD at 5W/4ohm would fall to 99.5dB and then there are competitors. I hope at least some readers are able to realize this.

That remembers me what happened in final 80s / 90s ... when more watts was the holy grail ... so the brands made everything to show a sticker with "100 watts". The amplifier would hit 100 watts with one channel, at 1khz and 10%THD, but the average consumer doesn't get it.

And then they spent more money in that amplifier against a really better one with more power, but the sticker showed 60 watts.

 

[Redheart]

are you sure this amp can take a source that outputs 8-10V ?

I will test with my preamp but I don't have a balanced preamp. I can only test in unbalanced. But it's not missing a lot of gain. I need maybe just 10db. So give me a 20db preamp i am set..
By the way I was going to get a preamp that includes a phono preamp too, i wanna get into vinyl! What made me liking it is the inconvenience!

 

[Lambda]

Maybe you are never playing content that are not very hard compressed,

Has nothing to do with compression.
If the peaks are over they are over and gonna clip. If not you can apply digital gain.

Don't see any reason why i would want and AMP/DAC combination that clips below 0dBFS?!

 

[Redheart]

I can amplify 5db that Uakti record before clipping. Roon has an indicator.

But even then, PA5 is not driving it hard enough for my speakers.
I get more oomph from A07 with 48V/7.3a from that same recording amped 5db. Simple as that. Topping must produce a preamp in this form factor? Maybe not as it may be their desktop solution...
Sadly enough, lack of auto sensing or trigger power option for the amp, and lack of preamp don't make it the be all end all living room power amp i was craving for, its for my specific needs.

Just potential user may be aware of the lack of gain is a real issue in my use case.

I wouldn't be rambling if it was good enough for me!
More power to those for whom it is

Its just my user experience, yours may be different. But i honestly am confronting the fact that PA5 lacks a little bit of gain.

 

[BoredErica]

I love low gain.

 

[Lambda]

I get more oomph from A07 with 48V

48 is a bigger number then 36

I can amplify 5db that Uakti record before clipping. Roon has an indicator.

But even then, PA5 is not driving it hard enough for my speakers.

If you add 5dB of Gain you are already

Your topping E50 seems to have 4.2Vrms output = +12.5dBV
Topping pa5 Input sensitivity: 2.6 Vrms = +8.3dBV

So Even at -4.2dBFS the AMP will clip at full volume.

So if your track peaks at 5dB your only 0.8dB from clipping and already well within the high distortion area.
If you "boost" the track no matter if in software or with an other preamp you will lose dynamic! and get clipping.

 

[KSTR]

The lower gain of PA5 (19.5dB) is the result of the SINAD wars here. You then get the magic 105 dB. If the gain was the usual 26 dB, then SINAD at 5W/4ohm would fall to 99.5dB and then there are competitors. I hope at least some readers are able to realize this.

IMHO, not necessarily so.
Adding a 6.5dB gain stage with standard audio opamps in front of it would not change anything wrt noise and distortion. Extra cost and complexity and of course we don't know the input stage topology. If there is none, then making the amp core 6.5dB hotter (reducing feedback) would make SINAD worse.

 

[pma]

My analysis was based on change of feedback factor. Yes 6.5dB difference, not 5.5dB as I wrote. I was too fast.

 

[hyperknot]

One question about gain. It's been said that with a 2.5V input source, the PA5 maxes out, right? So how can it have "not enough gain"? Any balanced DAC would output 4V, so we don't even need full volume on a balanced DAC to drive into clipping, isn't that right?

So how can a E50 + PA5 not be "loud enough"? If I understand a E50 can drive a PA5 into clipping, even with some 4 dB DSP headroom, is that right?

 

[antcollinet]

One question about gain. It's been said that with a 2.5V input source, the PA5 maxes out, right? So how can it have "not enough gain"? Any balanced DAC would output 4V, so we don't even need full volume on a balanced DAC to drive into clipping, isn't that right?

So how can a E50 + PA5 not be "loud enough"? If I understand a E50 can drive a PA5 into clipping, even with some 4 dB DSP headroom, is that right?

If it has insufficient power for the users speakers to generate the SPL they want.

 

[Lambda]

So how can a E50 + PA5 not be "loud enough"? If I understand a E50 can drive a PA5 into clipping, even with some 4 dB DSP headroom, is that right?

If it is not "loud enough" it has just not enough power.
The more Dynamic the music your listening to the more peak power you need. the peak power of the PA5 is very limited with only 36V...

so we don't even need full volume on a balanced DAC to drive into clipping, isn't that right?

This is right. The PA5 has more then enough gain. about 4.2dB more then enough.