meant to be my all in one dream amp
Went from Streaming Amplifier to Steaming Amplifier.Bad dream amp.
It's something I'd walk past on a kerbside pickup...
There is no information about operating levels on their specs, which just says: Line level Output: 1 x unbalanced variable (RCA)Answer from Hegel (official Hegel facebook group):
Measuring audio products is a difficult task. You obviously have to know what you are doing and also have the required knowhow on the subject of the measurements to establish the correct procedure so you don't end up with the misleading results. This "review" gets off on the wrong foot straight away in that respect by measuring the distortion on the variable output at volume level 98. H95 is an integrated amp, not a preamp, so a 2 volt signal on the variable output is outside parameters and will be heavily distorted.
Translation: We have to find a way to refute this guy but it will take some time.This continues with some rather unorthodox measurements and strange results which we of course would like to comment, so please give us some time for a propper response.
Translation: Who cares about objective measurements, subjectivity rules.Remember that an integrated amp like H95 is designed to play music on a loudspeaker and the proof is always in the pudding.
Feyerabend comes to mind. Anarchy in Science. I mean, he did write Farewell to Reason...Hume, it'll be interesting to see fanboys trying to put a favourable spin o' za test results
Did you see the Sound Engine 2 IC that they added to the amp circuitry? The way he describes the thing is, it uses feedback to cancel out unwanted stuff. A in-house part.
I would like to get rid of DAC + Pre +Power amp, What do you recommend as a better option?Bad dream amp.
It's something I'd walk past on a kerbside pickup...
I rather suspect another attempt at reinventing the wheel (by making it square)Holy crap. Is this simply the result of cheap and lazy engineering?
@amirm I wonder if it’s possible if you could measure the “system SINAD” from digital input to loudspeaker outs (in integrated amps).Remember that an integrated amp like H95 is designed to play music on a loudspeaker and the proof is always in the pudding.
He did:@amirm I wonder if it’s possible if you could measure the “system SINAD” from digital input to loudspeaker outs (in integrated amps).
Why would we want to test a line out at 1V. 1V input to a power amp will be just about enough for 30-40W @ 8ohms output. You need more level if you want to utilise the line outs. Just because "most of the internal and external modern class d amps are designed to clip after ~ 1 - 1.4 volts anyway" is not an excuse. Thanks to @Amir we now know that most amplifiers on the market are rubbish!it looks like most of the internal and external modern class d amps are designed to clip after ~ 1 - 1.4 volts anyway, so maybe instead of thrashing manufacturers for bad performance at 2 volts, 1 and not 2 volts should be the most useful benchmark for DACs in such products?
There is no battle. Just a naked EmperorWould save you in the future from repeatedly facing this unimportant battle.
Yey! The standard excuse has arrived. It took long this time though, 122 posts...The H95 was meant to be my all in one dream amp that one day I wish I could afford and be an endgame amp. Now you ruined the fantasy for me @amirm
I would like to imagine that you just had a faulty unit.
He did:
Nominal line level is -10dBV or 0.316V RMS. To their defense, they didn't write pre out.There is no information about operating levels on their specs, which just says: Line level Output: 1 x unbalanced variable (RCA)
Complaining that 2V output is outside their parameters is as lame as it gets.
Translation: We have to find a way to refute this guy but it will take some time.
Translation: Who cares about objective measurements, subjectivity rules.
I have no idea? What did they imply? Would be strange to have a press release of a product what already tells potential buyers that there is a performance problem.Thanks, so this measurement is what they have to re-test and improve.
Isn’t this what they implied on their press release?
I meant the post in their Facebook page -not an actual press release- that’s mentioned here, post#93I have no idea? What did they imply? Would be strange to have a press release of a product what already tells potential buyers that there is a performance problem.
Ah! No, they are actually regering to the very first graph that Amir did. Still, the fact that the digital SINAD is so much worse is another reason of concern.I meant the post in their Facebook page -not an actual press release- that’s mentioned here, post#93
Hegel H95 Review (Streaming Amplifier)
I am, somehow, not surprised. Still I wonder what Hegel's reasoning is? I am sure they have very talented people working there who could easily churn out a high performing device, yet they choose not to. Perplexing. How is it even possible to take a modern DAC chip and build something around it...www.audiosciencereview.com
“Remember that an integrated amp like H95 is designed to play music on a loudspeaker”
Hey everyone. Wow, this was quite the review to wake up to this morning. I am not going to go ahead and respond to the findings as such. Findings are findings however they came about.
But we are working on trying to replicate them to see how this could have been.
I will say that measurements and striving for low distortion is a driving factor at Hegel. We invest significant money in the the measurement equipment you can buy for Audio Precision and others. We measure to a great extent and getting as near as possible to the truth is what we aim for. I will get back and share our findings when we find them.
I wanted to share something from HiFi News to begin with though. They have also measured the H95:
https://www.hifinews.com/content/hegel-h95-network-attached-amp-lab-report
The RCA out starts clipping at 1V, for example. Measurements are done by Paul Miller who is an expert at measurements.
I will just leave that there for now and I will share more info on our findings later. Hopefully tomorrow.
Anders Ertzeid
VP Sales & Marketing
Hegel Music System AS
What is the difference between their label "Line Level" and a pre out? Nominal level is the operating level at which an electronic signal processing device is designed to operate. As they have not specified their levels it is perfectly normal to assume that the signal levels are referenced 0dBV and hence +6dB is a good level to stress the device under test.Nominal line level is -10dBV or 0.316V RMS. To their defense, they didn't write pre out.