Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

[JP]

Would be interesting to see some tracking tests.

 

[melloncolliecat]

Would be interesting to see some tracking tests.

Sorry, I don't have a good test record for that.

 

[melloncolliecat]

This is an excellent and helpful thread! A lot of measurements of the popular VM540ML. Has anyone made a good comparison with the 530EN? And also with the 540 on one of the lower inductance bodies? Or even different low-inductance bodies, such as the AT5V vs the 150MXL?

 

[Thomas_A]

VTA effect on Crosstalk

Here's something interesting for you all that shows up well in measurements. Plus it doubles as a sneak preview of some very interesting cartridge measurements that are coming up.


New member @melloncolliecat has been kind enough to let me share these work-in-progress measurements as he makes final adjustments. He had been using a CBS STR-100 Issue 1 that had some issues and generously purchased a CA-TRS-1007 this week, which will provide us really nice results. So round of applause.

The Empire 2000Z (a cartridge I really, really wanted to see) here has a recommended tracking force of 1g (range is 0.75-1.25g) but there seems to be some sort of compatibility issue as it results in a lot of clicks and pops. Perhaps it is the tonearm but we are not exactly sure. At 1g, it is particularly sensitive to VTA and so it is useful to see how adjustments can affect results. Results may not be typical and the take is obvious but it is all still good to see, stick to the recommended settings

View attachment 304530

Is this more of a separate thread? (VTF should affect centering of armature and thus crosstalk.Lowest is ideal VTF.)

 

[Balle Clorin]

@USER , Did you mean VTF and not VTA?

Here is my channel separation vs VTF for AT33PTGii on Ortofon test record 1kHz
On 2gram it tracks 80uM, 1.8gram 70um,

 

[JP]

This is an excellent and helpful thread! A lot of measurements of the popular VM540ML. Has anyone made a good comparison with the 530EN? And also with the 540 on one of the lower inductance bodies? Or even different low-inductance bodies, such as the AT5V vs the 150MXL?

All I need is time...

 

[USER]

@USER , Did you mean VTF and not VTA?

Here is my channel separation vs VTF for AT33PTGii on Ortofon test record 1kHz
On 2gram it tracks 80uM, 1.8gram 70um,
View attachment 304736

Yes. It's the force but I thought I was saying A for adjustment. I can change it.

Is this more of a separate thread? (VTF should affect centering of armature and thus crosstalk.Lowest is ideal VTF.)

Part of this is that I want to make a sticky on top of this thread for people reading and making measurements so they can better read results and refine set-up for adjustment. I want to show what the variable can do and some possible reasons for odd things that pop up as this all helps with fixing issues as well. This should help readers and measurers. The graphs show set up just as much as cartridge performance after all.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Can you help me understand the lateral and vertical measurements?

In terms of the CA record, one question is if we can show different drop rates for different stylus shapes. If you are able to run some graphs from it I'd greatly appreciate it.

Some old recordings presented CA trs1007 track 1 and 9. NOTE too high low rumble filter active.
ML stylus:

side B

SAME WITH THORENS TPU TAS 257= AT3600L Conical

Spoiler: UPON REQUEST

Crosstalk PTG outer track 1&2 L&R. Azimuth or optimized for this record nut for Ortofon which gives -30/-31. Funny wobbly respons on only PTG right channel and Only this record. Normally I find thhis deviation in top end of L R if VTA is not optimal. maybe it was off when I recorded this

Inner track 9/10

CROSSTALK THORENS OUTER TRACKS

CROSSTALK INNER TRACK THORENS. FANTASTIC CHANNEL CONSITENCY FORA 30USD CARTRIDGE

Some data for ATOC9MLii, azimuth and VTA not optimized. outer track

INNER TRACK

 

[USER]

Fascinating. It can be argued that it seems to perform better as it plays. Changes in distortion hint at azimuth change. Do you have the larger view graphs with crosstalk?

 

[Balle Clorin]

Yes, but bedtime here now

 

[Balle Clorin]

Anyone going to post any Ortofon OM / Super OM variants here?

 

[JP]

Yes, eventually.

 

[GXAlan]

Anyone going to post any Ortofon OM / Super OM variants here?

I posted my Red 2M earlier

 

[DrCWO]

For all of you running a Shure pickup (I got a V15V-MR) I like to share some additional information.

I connected my pickup symmetric via XLR to my ADI-2/4 Pin 2 and 3 and added (as told in the manual of the ADI-2/4) a 100k resistor between these pins in the connector.

During measurements I always encountered a small mains induced hum. As I found out the body of the Shure cartridges is connected to one of the signal pins which caused the hum. Shure itself publishes some information on how to remove this interconnection here.

Next, I inserted a flattened piece of copper wire in place of the tab and connected that to the ground wire that runs through the tonearm tube and is bolted to its front.

This small tinkering reduced the 50Hz main hum by 20dB!!!

Easy modification and big improvement

 

[JP]

Ya did similar years ago. Then something changed and it doesn’t appear to do anything anymore.

EDIT: and pretty much all MM have that strap.

 

[USER]

I run my Denon DP-35F balanced with a flat phono stage. If I don't take the strap off I get this in the upper frequencies with the Shure V15 V-MR. (I've since mitigated pretty much everything other than the 60Hz hum that's below -100dB with RIAA.)

 

[JP]

Strap needs to be removed for balanced in, otherwise it’s not balanced.

 

[DrCWO]

I run my Denon DP-35F balanced with a flat phono stage. If I don't take the strap off I get this in the upper frequencies with the Shure V15 V-MR. (I've since mitigated pretty much everything other than the 60Hz hum that's below -100dB with RIAA.)

View attachment 305775

I have some remarks on that:

1. Nice to see but a bit useless in my eyes as you did not provide any information about the level you calibrated the system. At the first track of the "Trackablility Test Record" from CA there is a 0dB 1kHz tone. Maybe you will use this to calibrate the recording volume to 0dB. After that, when measuring the hum, you at least know what the value refers to and thus creates a certain comparability.
   
   
2. I am curious to see the measurement of both channels as only one of them has the ground strap. Maybe this is the result of the unstrapped channel
   
   
3. Please also repeat the STEREO measurement while touching the metal case of the pickup and let us know if the 60Hz hum will increase.
   If the case is not connected to one of the signal wires but to the shield it will not (I tried that after the conversion). Before the conversion, touching had a strong effect, now none at all.

Best DrCWO

 

[USER]

My point was simply to show that the rise is there with the strap and it is not without it on a balanced system. As JP said, that's because the cartridge is unbalanced with the strap. Additionally, I have been told the following is the reason for the phenomenon,

"When the cart is wired unbalanced the inductive impedance rise causes a bump in the HF noise curve usually from external common mode sources and internal noise current."

I am waiting for the E1DA Scaler to come out in order to be able to calibrate a 1kHz signal to 0.5 dB more out of curiosity than for use or my own general measurements. The E1DA Cosmos ADC is here set to 1.7V output and the preamp is set to 28 dB gain. 1kHz signal (Tacet) reaches about -24 dB, which I believe is perfect in order to allow ample overhead and is the reason I haven't explored the issue any further and use this output and gain combination for my recordings and measurements.

Right channel did exhibit the same rise.

As far as remeasuring, I simply don't have the time to do that. I'll be sure to let you know if I do.

 

[DrCWO]

I am waiting for the E1DA Scaler to come out ...

Seems you use the E1DA Cosmos ADC. This is a great device

I read that is has too low impedance for phono and also read that there is a firmware available that offers additional RIAA.
Would you mind telling me how you connected your pickup and how you do RIAA processing in your setup?
I also thought about using E1DA but for me the RMA ADI-2/4 was more convincing as it covers all that plus the DAC.

Best DrCWO