JP
Major Contributor
That’s a boron pipe cantilever?
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library
- Thread starter USER
- Start date
I believe it is - if it still has the original - diamond sputtered hollow boron pipe...
And the charts seem to indicate a cantilever resonance beyond 20kHz - would be interesting if we could get a F/R out to 48kHz (not many test records have that... but some Japanese ones did, designed to test the quad cartridges that needed response out to 40kHz) - if you can identify the resonant frequency, you can calculate the effective tip mass.... which would be interesting!
Balle Clorin
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2017
- Messages
- 1,386
- Likes
- 1,258
I have some ..-45kHz. test record , QR2010 and ortofon.
do not look so good..tracks even on same record deviates
I may have an EQ calibration problem beyond 20khz... suspicious slope 20k-45k
The present Ortofn record is uneven.
do not look so good..tracks even on same record deviates
I may have an EQ calibration problem beyond 20khz... suspicious slope 20k-45k
The present Ortofn record is uneven.
Last edited:
Depending on the test record, some of them (or some tracks?) are intended to be used without RIAA / EQ...
Shure V15 Type V xMR with original Shure Beryllium stylus
This is running through my Yamaha CX-A5100 phono input, an 11.2 channel AV processor. I used the pre-out at +0 dB in Pure Direct Mode.
I am not the original owner of the turntable or cartridge.
The channel imbalance is about 1 to 1.5 dB. That seems to be what someone else reported too!
www.vinylengine.com
This is running through my Yamaha CX-A5100 phono input, an 11.2 channel AV processor. I used the pre-out at +0 dB in Pure Direct Mode.
I am not the original owner of the turntable or cartridge.
- CBS STR-100 found off eBay. It has a lot of surface noise and pops even though it visually looks clean. Warping is easily seen in the recordings.
- Sony PS-X555ES Biotracer Linear Tracking Turntable
- 1.5 grams with the brush enabled (so ~1 gm actual tracking)
The channel imbalance is about 1 to 1.5 dB. That seems to be what someone else reported too!
Azimuth again! and Channel balance.- Vinyl Engine
Last edited:
Vintage Grado XG Gold
This is running through my Yamaha CX-A5100 phono input, an 11.2 channel AV processor. I used the pre-out at +0 dB in Pure Direct Mode.
I am not the original owner of the turntable or cartridge.
This is running through my Yamaha CX-A5100 phono input, an 11.2 channel AV processor. I used the pre-out at +0 dB in Pure Direct Mode.
I am not the original owner of the turntable or cartridge.
- CBS STR-100 found off eBay. It has a lot of surface noise and pops even though it visually looks clean. Warping is easily seen in the recordings.
- Sony PS-X555ES Biotracer Linear Tracking Turntable
- 1.5 grams
Lovely! (F/R)Shure V15 Type V xMR with original Shure Beryllium stylus
View attachment 300095
This is running through my Yamaha CX-A5100 phono input, an 11.2 channel AV processor. I used the pre-out at +0 dB in Pure Direct Mode.
I am not the original owner of the turntable or cartridge.
Since this is the original beryllium stylus, it has to be stiff/worn. Nonetheless, this is a great result which really shows the "transparency" of the Shure V15 VxMR and at least the general quality of my CBS STR-100. This is used in my home theater room, so it's using a run-of-the-mill Yamaha AV processor which is officially graded as +/- 0.5 dB for RIAA accuracy.
- CBS STR-100 found off eBay. It has a lot of surface noise and pops even though it visually looks clean. Warping is easily seen in the recordings.
- Sony PS-X555ES Biotracer Linear Tracking Turntable
- 1.5 grams with the brush enabled (so ~1 gm actual tracking)
The channel imbalance is about 1 to 1.5 dB. That seems to be what someone else reported too!
Azimuth again! and Channel balance.- Vinyl Engine
Strange difference between L & R 2nd harmonic...
(Nice TT by the way!)
Another really nice cartridge! - a good contender for digital EQ... - and this one will definitely take advantage of the biotracer...
The V15V you could try without the brush down too - given you are running on a biotracer arm
Ortofon 2M Red
This is being run with a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC running through the Kenwood L-08C. This was a sold as new-old stock. It was showroom cosmetic demo that was unlikely to have been run since the power adapter was missing.
This is being run with a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC running through the Kenwood L-08C. This was a sold as new-old stock. It was showroom cosmetic demo that was unlikely to have been run since the power adapter was missing.
- CBS STR-100 found off eBay. It has a lot of surface noise and pops even though it visually looks clean. Warping is easily seen in the recordings.
- Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC running through a Kenwood L-08C
- 18 mN (1.8 grams)
It is interesting that my most expensive "audiophile" setup had exceptional channel matching (the ZYX manufactured Monster Cable Sigma 2000 MC + Marantz PM-10). However, the Sigma was not that flat and had its own signature -- the Monster Cable "extra bass" sensation
Here's a comparison normalizing them individually and picking the two most similar channels
On the Biotracer, I have actually run the Shure at 0.9gm and had excellent results. I use the brush in part because it picks up a lot of dust for me: )
What is neat is that the vintage Grado XG sounds great but you can see that it's giving you a smiley-face EQ automatically!
Looks like total capacitance is bit high. 150-200 pF total is ideal.
Yes I am quite fond of the Grado's - but neutrality ain't their thing!It is interesting that my most expensive "audiophile" setup had exceptional channel matching (the ZYX manufactured Monster Cable Sigma 2000 MC + Marantz PM-10). However, the Sigma was not that flat and had its own signature -- the Monster Cable "extra bass" sensation
Here's a comparison normalizing them individually and picking the two most similar channels
View attachment 300102
On the Biotracer, I have actually run the Shure at 0.9gm and had excellent results. I use the brush in part because it picks up a lot of dust for me: )
What is neat is that the vintage Grado XG sounds great but you can see that it's giving you a smiley-face EQ automatically!
However their design is capacitance insensitive - which can be handy! - and combined with DEQ (digital EQ) - the result could be an excellent and very versatile option.... (as long as your tonearm is a very stable and low-medium mass design preferably with damping...)
This is far from the best of Ortofon MM tech...
It's a bit of a "porker" in effective mass terms - I think the 3rd harmonic is showing up a cantilever resonance at around 9khz
That roll off could be altered with either adjusting the loading, or DEQ.... - but if you opt for loading adjustment, I would not be surprised if loadings that aid the extension (by flattening the roll off) would also result in a boost around 9Khz, as they would in turn expose the cantilever resonance - which in the default setup, is "hidden" by the loading LCR... (just guessing... to know for sure I would have to run the sweep data through my simulator to extract the raw performance pre: LCR circuit, of the cantilever)
dougi
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Yeah, the Lowbeats measurement of the Red even showed a bit of lift at HF. My Blue measurement in this thread was flatter at ~190pF total. Distortion a bit better too, but not at HF.
Balle Clorin
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2017
- Messages
- 1,386
- Likes
- 1,258
@GXAlan , great plots,Many thanks , It would be great to see the plot «1» to see channel separation also. . All you plots have quite high distortion -5db at 5-10k, I suspect that is from the CBS test record? Can anyone confirm this?
PS , please include Capacitance in the information, I am hoping to learn how my incoming Shure V15+ Jico Hyper elliptical should be loaded,
PS , please include Capacitance in the information, I am hoping to learn how my incoming Shure V15+ Jico Hyper elliptical should be loaded,
Last edited:
Which Shure V15?
Also the loading and details from the V15VxMR would not be relevant to a V15Vx-JicoHE....
The loading needs to be tailored to both the cartridge (inductance) and the cantilever/stylus - so as soon as you have a non-original stylus, the originaly loading specs become completely irrelevant.
I have experimented with some Jico/Shure combinations including an M97x with Jico HE - each body/stylus combo requires its own (differing!) loading to achieve as close to a flat f/r as possible ...
Here are some tests I did with p-mount members of the Shure family - including a V15HRP (similar to V15Vx) and the V15VP - p-mount version of the V15VMR, needles included a Jico HE (the base HRP measurement) a Jico eliptical (N99e), as well as SAS.
I had the capacitance as low as possible to try to expose the cantilever behaviour - so I could later adjust C and R ...
I subsequently did a lot of measurements with the SAS - but never went back to the HE for in depth analysis (so I cannot provide a measured recommendation!)
But it really shows how different the various needles are - or more correctly - how different the cantilevers are, as in this case it is the cantilever (effective mass) that is the main variable and not so much the needle shape/type.
Needle shape would provide more variation in the distortion measurements....
OP
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2019
- Messages
- 998
- Likes
- 1,665
- Thread Starter
- #97
@GXAlan note also that you will want to undershoot your loading a little with the CBS test record as it really is about -0.5dB from around 5-15kHz more or less. This is important if you are using the test record to set up your system. And joining the others, please provide capacitance information and crosstalk measurements as well. And the consistent -30dB 2nd harmonic at 1kHz in these new ones is odd and you may want to investigate that as it doesn't appear to be the limit in your earlier measurements. Other than that those are great adds to the library and I'll add them to the index. Thanks! Please see these measurements and others on the script thread for more information on the FR differences between the test records.
www.audiosciencereview.com
Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library
After years of development we are finally launching our phono cartridge measurement library. These measurements were created using the brilliant cartridge response python script written by @scott wurcer and @JP. Information about its origins can be found in the following threads...
www.audiosciencereview.com
As an aside, if you don't trust the test track - run it at 45rpm instead of 33... (RIAA if in use needs to be adjusted accordingly!) - if as on some of my suspect tracks the problem area is up at 15kHz and above... it will get pushed up above 20Khz and you get a clean reading for the critical frequencies.
@GXAlan note also that you will want to undershoot your loading a little with the CBS test record as it really is about -0.5dB from around 5-15kHz more or less. This is important if you are using the test record to set up your system. And joining the others, please provide capacitance information and crosstalk measurements as well. And the consistent -30dB 2nd harmonic at 1kHz in these new ones is odd and you may want to investigate that as it doesn't appear to be the limit in your earlier measurements. Other than that those are great adds to the library and I'll add them to the index. Thanks! Please see these measurements and others on the script thread for more information on the FR differences between the test records.
Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library
After years of development we are finally launching our phono cartridge measurement library. These measurements were created using the brilliant cartridge response python script written by @scott wurcer and @JP. Information about its origins can be found in the following threads...
I will run the crosstalk measurements later but since I haven’t really set my azimuth personally, it’s probably not that useful right now. I also don’t own a LCR meter.
These new measurements are with different phono preamps. I have different turntables in different rooms so it’s not trivial.
The PS-X555ES is attached to essentialply an AVR, so there is no control of loading
The L-08 has three MM options, and the single 100 ohm MC
The Marantz has the 10 and 49 ohm options for MC and a single MM. That, along with my LP12/Sigma 2000 is my reference LP playback system.
Balle Clorin
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2017
- Messages
- 1,386
- Likes
- 1,258
Sony VL34G
- Cartridge: Sony VL34G original spherical 1978,
- Stylus condition: unknown hours
- Test record: ClearAudio TRS-1007 side A track 1&2 L/R stereo
- Turntable and arm: Sony SP-212 from junk sale,30USD but speed is correct Peak wow 0.11%
- Tracking force: 2.5g
- Phono stage and loading settings: Cambridge CP2 220pF 47k. DeLoc 63926 Usb ADC to PC
- Capacitance and impedance: 220pF fixed + 125pF cables=345pF, 47k ohm
- Cable capacitance
- 125pF cables
- Recording: no adjustment on balance, no Azimuth adjustment on cartridge, 16 bit 48kHz.Recording characteristic RIAA.
Last edited:
Similar threads
