For the Cinema series, the lower the number the better: Cinema 30 > 40 > 50
I know. My question is what is more complete:
Cinema 40 + Model 50
Or
Cinema 30
The model 50 is an integrated stereo amp that I would connect to the Cinema 40
For the Cinema series, the lower the number the better: Cinema 30 > 40 > 50
Sorry, I misread "Model 50"!I know. My question is what is more complete:
Cinema 40 + Model 50
Or
Cinema 30
The model 50 is an integrated stereo amp that I would connect to the Cinema 40
That's what the display under the flip-down door is for.<ahem> <ahem> Marantz Marketing would call it sound attenuation polymer panels.
I wish Marantz would do away with that porthole display. I know it looks snazzy, but I can't see jack squat.
Considering that music is important… would a Cinema 40+Model 50 a better option than a Cinema 30?
I know. My question is what is more complete:
Cinema 40 + Model 50
Or
Cinema 30
The model 50 is an integrated stereo amp that I would connect to the Cinema 40
We do know something about the measurements of the C30, irrc., it was mentioned in one of Audioholics YT review that mentioned the measurements by Marantz. For example, the SINAD was 107 dB, about the same as the AV10.We do not know the measurements of Cinema 30 and Model 50. But please note that I am considering C40+M50 vs C30
For music the NAD amp would be fine but for movies, the center channel could have as much or more peak "power" requirements especially if it has low sensitivity and/or lower impedance/higher phase angles etc. As far as whether the Model 50 is better for music vs the C30, I would say there is no chance of that based on specs and measurements. Again, I know the M50 has not been measured by our respected test benches or Marantz's own but you can perhaps reference the measured PM11S3 that is the predecessor of the PM-10. Those are Marantz "reference" class amps, and you can see that the PM11S3 did not measure all that well vs even the C0 let alone the C30.In fact I already have a power amp (NAD, 150w, 2 channels). The model 50 would replace it. All of this is just wondering if Model 50 would be better for music
I am very familiar with those points, and they do make sense, to a point. In my own experience though:You are probably right, it is just that I have as a kind of dogma that integrated amps are better for music than receivers. Look at what AI says at this respect:
Integrated amplifiers are often considered better than receivers for music-focused audio systems due to several key reasons:
It's important to note, however, that these advantages are generalizations and can vary between specific models and brands. Some high-end receivers might outperform entry-level integrated amplifiers in certain aspects.
- Dedicated Audio Focus: Integrated amplifiers are designed solely for amplifying audio, without the additional circuitry for video processing, radio tuners, and other features commonly found in receivers. This singular focus can lead to a cleaner, more direct signal path, which many audiophiles believe results in higher audio quality.
- Higher Quality Components: Because integrated amplifiers are often targeted towards more discerning listeners, manufacturers might use higher quality audio components (like capacitors, resistors, and transformers) compared to those found in receivers, which must also allocate budget and space for video and networking features.
- Less Interference: The lack of video processing and digital signal processing (DSP) circuits in integrated amplifiers can reduce the potential for electronic interference, which can degrade audio quality. The simpler internal design of an integrated amplifier can lead to a purer sound.
- Better Power Supplies: Integrated amplifiers often have robust power supplies focused on delivering clean, stable power to the audio circuits. This can enhance the dynamic range and overall performance of the amplifier, especially at higher volumes or with more demanding speakers.
- Sound Tuning: Manufacturers of integrated amplifiers might invest more in tuning the sound profile of the device to appeal to audiophiles, focusing on aspects like clarity, detail, and soundstage, which are critical for a high-quality music listening experience.
- Build Quality: Integrated amplifiers, especially those from high-end audio brands, often boast superior build quality with heavy-duty chassis, high-quality connectors, and attention to details like vibration damping, all of which can contribute to better sound quality.
- Simplicity and Purity: The straightforward design of integrated amplifiers, without the complexity of multiple input/output options, surround sound decoding, and video processing, is believed by many audiophiles to preserve the integrity and purity of the original audio signal.
I was in the same position. Bought the Denon A1H on accessories4less for the price of a Cinema 30. Use the XLRs for sub 1, LF,C, RF and two rca for the other two subs. Love it so far.Sigh, I'm in a position where in the midterm future I'm going to really want 4 independent sub outputs because my setup is now all prepared to easily add a 3rd and then 4th sub to fit into all 4 corners of my room. So if I want to do that I'm going to need to "upgrade" from my current Integra 8.4 which is otherwise perfect for my use case in every other freaking way. So do we know enough about the Cinema 30 internals as to how its processing and all that mostly imperceptible stuff in particular compares to whatever the new Integra uses? I use an external buckeye amp for my LCR so I'm not so much concerned about the power, but I currently use the balanced outputs which are on the Integra for that and my two subs despite not knowing if it makes one bit of difference compared to unbalanced outputs to be honest.
Ideally the AV-10 is right there but the $7,000 and then the additional cost in Dirac license and external amps (so easily another $2,000) I'll need for my current surrounds and future atmos is just ugggh compared to the $4500 (+Dirac license) for a Cinema 30. And I can make back at least a couple grand selling the Integra with its Dirac Bass license so it's not crippling.
And I guess the elephant in the room is the x6800 for even cheaper and technically the same capabilities but I leery of it being in literally the same chassis as the step down x4800 unlike the Cinema 30 which is a much larger piece of equipment than the step down Cinema 40.
Have you considered the A1H? It has XLRs for 4 subs, or use them for you buckeye LCR and us the RCSs for the sub, a little cheaper than the AV10 but maybe not as good looking to you.Sigh, I'm in a position where in the midterm future I'm going to really want 4 independent sub outputs because my setup is now all prepared to easily add a 3rd and then 4th sub to fit into all 4 corners of my room. So if I want to do that I'm going to need to "upgrade" from my current Integra 8.4 which is otherwise perfect for my use case in every other freaking way. So do we know enough about the Cinema 30 internals as to how its processing and all that mostly imperceptible stuff in particular compares to whatever the new Integra uses? I use an external buckeye amp for my LCR so I'm not so much concerned about the power, but I currently use the balanced outputs which are on the Integra for that and my two subs despite not knowing if it makes one bit of difference compared to unbalanced outputs to be honest.
Ideally the AV-10 is right there but the $7,000 and then the additional cost in Dirac license and external amps (so easily another $2,000) I'll need for my current surrounds and future atmos is just ugggh compared to the $4500 (+Dirac license) for a Cinema 30. And I can make back at least a couple grand selling the Integra with its Dirac Bass license so it's not crippling.
And I guess the elephant in the room is the x6800 for even cheaper and technically the same capabilities but I leery of it being in literally the same chassis as the step down x4800 unlike the Cinema 30 which is a much larger piece of equipment than the step down Cinema 40.
Have you considered the A1H? It has XLRs for 4 subs, or use them for you buckeye LCR and us the RCSs for the sub, a little cheaper than the AV10 but maybe not as good looking to you.
I have had Denon avrs that had fans and they had never turned on. If they ever did, you could put a quiet fan (such as one of Noctua) on top or blowfrom tbe rear, and the fan will then never turn on again.I had kind of forgotten all about that option. It's definitely interesting but I had kind of put aside the idea a while ago because I'm under the impression that it can run pretty hot and so the fans are correspondingly audible. This won't be in some rack, it'll be right under my TV on a shelf that's completely open to allow airflow to all the stuff I have. Am I incorrect on that fan noise?
Is the A1H DAC the same as the one in the AV10?
You can also ask @pkgriffith814 (who just bought one) about fan noise.I had kind of forgotten all about that option. It's definitely interesting but I had kind of put aside the idea a while ago because I'm under the impression that it can run pretty hot and so the fans are correspondingly audible. This won't be in some rack, it'll be right under my TV on a shelf that's completely open to allow airflow to all the stuff I have. Am I incorrect on that fan noise?