Marantz Cinema 30

[Sal1950]

That metal remote control just makes me smile every time i pick it up…

First BTW, Welcome to ASR!
I'm happy to hear you are enjoying your Marantz AVR
Sometimes it can be the little things that add to the enjoyment of a product.
I've had a little Emotiva DC-1 DAC that Amir measured here some years back. It also has
a metal cased remote and though it is a bit heavy it's weigh and solid feeling in the hand just
adds that "quality" feeling to the product. Same for the units case, the thick aluminum front
panel and steel case makes for a very positive impression. We all know that a positive visual
bias can definitely make the product sound better, even if it's all our imagination.

 

[BearC30]

Thanks for the kind welcome. I have lurked for a long time but thought i could contribute on this topic.

 

[CCCC]

Agreed. I just upgraded from a C50 with a Rotel 1555 external amp and the C30 is a significant improvement. I agree the price is hard to swallow but to me it feels solid and premium.

Do you keep the rotel external amp? I use a NAD external amp that I have been using with the 7013 and probably now I could live without it, but for peace of mind I keep it

My main reason to upgrade, apart from HDMI 2.1 and having the option of Dirac, was the Music performance, and it has exceeded my expectations here

Yes, the remote controller is superb. Top quality

 

[BearC30]

Do you keep the rotel external amp? I use a NAD external amp that I have been using with the 7013 and probably now I could live without it, but for piece of mind I keep it

Yes, the remote controller is superb. Top quality

I had the C50 and decided to add the Rotel rather than step up to the C40 as I didn’t feel it was enough of a step change power wise. I had some issues with the Rotel and nuisance trips and had it replaced under warranty. Then the C30 came out and i got a really good trade deal on the C50 and Rotel plus some cash to jump up to the C30. In the few days usage and giving it some juice with Atmos movies and 2 channel music I won’t need an external amp for my Focal setup, it has plenty. If you have 86db 4 ohm speakers that may be a different story.

 

[CCCC]

I had the C50 and decided to add the Rotel rather than step up to the C40 as I didn’t feel it was enough of a step change power wise. I had some issues with the Rotel and nuisance trips and had it replaced under warranty. Then the C30 came out and i got a really good trade deal on the C50 and Rotel plus some cash to jump up to the C30. In the few days usage and giving it some juice with Atmos movies and 2 channel music I won’t need an external amp for my Focal setup, it has plenty. If you have 86db 4 ohm speakers that may be a different story.

My speakers are Focal also. The front speakers, Focal Aria 948, are 92.5db sensitive, which is misleading as they are not easy to drive (they go down to 2.4ohn and stay below 4ohm in all frequencies up to 1khz). For that reason I keep the power amp, but I have to try to remove it

 

[BearC30]

My speakers are Focal also. The front speakers, Focal Aria 948, are 92.5db sensitive, which is misleading as they are not easy to drive (they go down to 2.4ohn and stay below 4ohm in all frequencies up to 1khz). For that reason I keep the power amp, but I have to try to remove it

I have Chora 826’s as my mains. They also are rated at 91db and 8 ohms but drop to 2.9 ohms. Seems to be a trend with Focal as to me the math doesn’t add up on an 8 ohm rated speaker dropping that low? Either way the C30 drives them fine. I am actually worried my electronics are too expensive for my speakers now. I auditioned some KEF R7 Meta’s on a Marantz Model 40n and I seriously shouldnt have. I want them badly now…ah this is a painful hobby!!

 

[CCCC]

Focal should rate their speakers as 4 ohm

I will keep the external power amp to ensure good drive and also to release the C30 from extra work. I want it to last many years

 

[Oddball]

Now with the easy parts being done correctly, maybe
(in the case or AVR's, etc) we can begin to concentrate on better DRC, start looking into things like, are the codec's
like Dolby THC, DTS HT and all the rest performing to spec? I'm not an engineer but I've wondered do these things
perform as they're supposed to going from one builder to another. Is there a way to measure these things and see what's
going on there? Is there a possibility that Denons implementation of the Atmos decodeing in their AVR's different than
Arcams or Monoprice, or ??? Is there a way to check these things? I've never heard anyone even begin to discuss it?
I don't understand these things so maybe there's nothing to be concerned about ???
Just a bit of a rant maybe?

Although anything is possible, decoding is generally policed by Dolby, DTS etc. As I understand, they would certify the implementation so that the manufacturer can use the relevant logo and technology. It's a fail or pass test so theoretically there should be no inferior or better implementation. Obviously the rest of the AVR design and implementation will impact the decoded sound in some shape or form (separation, dynamic range, noise etc.), but I don't think that is what Dolby or DTS are particularly picky about as there are lots of lower end AVRs bearing the certification. They certify the integrity of the decoded signal, before further processing.

THX has different levels of certification for audio components where Dominus would be the highest and THX the lowest level, but it seems that has lost its appeal in the world of AVRs/AVPs. Not really sure what are the requirements of different levels for AVRs though.

AVR's processing units are another area that could be looked into. It seems that there is plenty of power in the current line-up with lots of manufacturers e.g. being able to implement Dirac Art on their current models that requires a slightly higher processing capabilities. There is still a question if the room correction could benefit from higher processing rate than 48khz, which might require beefier processing units. As I understand, most say 48khz is good enough, especially for movie soundtracks.

Dynamic range is a matter of overall design. Higher end AV-10 and AVM-90 AVPs are at around 113dB. My other AVR, Denon 6700H is at around 108dB, and equal to Trinnov, which is a bit higher than some other popular ones like Onkyo RZ 50 at 105dB. I had no complaints as far as 108dB, but yes, higher is generally better.

I think that we are currently pretty good on the state of hardware, except for pricing which is insane. But so it is in other areas of life, unfortunately.

 

[Whoareyou]

Is there a possibility that Denons implementation of the Atmos decodeing in their AVR's different than
Arcams or Monoprice, or ??? Is there a way to check these things? I've never heard anyone even begin to discuss it?
I don't understand these things so maybe there's nothing to be concerned about ???
Just a bit of a rant maybe?

I've wondered similar, but one would hope that the Dolby licensing process confirms it's all working as expected. Then again, as you've pointed out regarding the independent reviews, you never know ....

 

[Whoareyou]

I think that we are currently pretty good on the state of hardware, except for pricing which is insane. But so it is in other areas of life, unfortunately.

So, I know what I'd like to pay for this receiver, but is the price really insane? I'm really curious what people think this type of equipment should cost?

The amount of R&D, parts, manufacturing cost, 5 year warranty, and those licensing fees, etc. are not insignificant.

Compared to my multichannel DAC cost, and other hardware out there, I really don't know what to think anymore about the cost of any of this stuff (except maybe a $100,000 amp that puts out 200 watts).

 

[Oddball]

Denon 6700H was released in 2020 and listed for $2.2K if not mistaken, and street price was as low as $1.7k. Bought mine for around $2K. Without going into much details about various 6700H incarnations and DAC replacement, Denon 6800H is essentially similar with a bit better DSP and 2 more subs out. Listed for $3.5k and have no idea of the street price. Quite a bit of difference IMO - $2.5k would be a more justifiable number. There was some R&D for sure and Dirac implementation, but also reasonable to expect that D&M will get a share of Dirac revenue in some way to recoup that particular cost.

You could buy Marantz AV 8500A for $3.5k, AV-10 is more like $6k. It is true that this is a completely new unit in all aspects and there was ton of R&D, including very significant improvements in measured performance. But almost double the price tag is also a bit much.

 

[Sal1950]

I've wondered similar, but one would hope that the Dolby licensing process confirms it's all working as expected. Then again, as you've pointed out regarding the independent reviews, you never know ....

I still tend to wonder how far beyond collecting the licensing fees Dolby and the rest care about individual manufacturers
AVR are implementing the coding? We have seen how far off the grid things can drift when no one pays attention, can we find a way to measure these things and keep an eye out?

You could buy Marantz AV 8500A for $3.5k, AV-10 is more like $6k. It is true that this is a completely new unit in all aspects and there was ton of R&D, including very significant improvements in measured performance. But almost double the price tag is also a bit much.

We do also have to take into consideration the increases world wide on things. Inflation in the US has increased out of control over the last 3 years, fuel prices doubling and so on.
I don't know what the build > selling costs are for new designs but with each year/generation these HT products have to include more and more tech, pay more and more licensing fees, etc. At the lower end of the scale the included "goodies" are
incredible for the low cost per offerings. I believe the manufacturers may be tagging some extra $ onto the higher end products to help support low cost products for the less dedicated buyers. I find it amazing what can be purchased for a few hundred dollars today. Street prices can be super low if you do your homework.

NR1510 - Slimline 5.2 Channel AV Receiver with 50W, 4K and 6 HDMI Inputs | Marantz - US

Slimline 5.2 Channel AV Receiver with 50W, 4K and 6 HDMI Inputs

www.marantz.com

 

[BearC30]

Focal should rate their speakers as 4 ohm

I will keep the external power amp to ensure good drive and also to release the C30 from extra work. I want it to last many years

Keep your external amp by all means but i would certainly try the C30 on its own. I obviously am not an engineer and have not done the numbers but my take is at worst case your Aria range is more equivalent to a 6 ohm rated speaker as opposed to a higher end 4 ohm monster. The C30 would likely handle it fine.

 

[peng]

Keep your external amp by all means but i would certainly try the C30 on its own. I obviously am not an engineer and have not done the numbers but my take is at worst case your Aria range is more equivalent to a 6 ohm rated speaker as opposed to a higher end 4 ohm monster. The C30 would likely handle it fine.

I tend to agree, people seem to worry about impedance dips here and there, but can't really tell if such dips are real issues without seeing the kind of impedance and phase angle curves that Amir would typically/or always do in his reviews.

 

[CCCC]

I will try without external amp, even if it's out of curiosity, knowing myself I will keep it at the end for peace of mind

 

[peng]

My speakers are Focal also. The front speakers, Focal Aria 948, are 92.5db sensitive, which is misleading as they are not easy to drive (they go down to 2.4ohn and stay below 4ohm in all frequencies up to 1khz). For that reason I keep the power amp, but I have to try to remove it

As you know sensitivity and impedance are different specs, so I don't think it is misleading by itself as such, unless the uninformed make the wrong assumption that 92.5 dB implies the speaker is easy to drive, without checking for impedance/phase angle characteristics.

All else being equal, 92.5 dB, 4 ohms, would be about as easy or difficult to drive as 89.5 dB 8 ohms, if one wants to compare drivability, but that is over simplified, people should look at the impedance/phase angle vs frequency curves, before making any judgement.

 

[CCCC]

I said misleading because in some reviews/discussions it is said they are easy to drive. Other reviewers, more professional, warn about the need of good amplification to make them shine

 

[peng]

I said misleading because in some reviews/discussions it is said they are easy to drive. Other reviewers, more professional, warn about the need of good amplification to make them shine

Would you mind sharing the impedance/phase angle curve?

 

[CCCC]

I do not have it. I saw the curve of the 936 (smaller than my 948) years ago in a web (polish I think)

 

[peng]

I do not have it. I saw the curve of the 936 (smaller than my 948) years ago in a web (polish I think)

I have seen the 936's in Stereophile's review.

Focal Aria 936 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 4: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

I do know how similar the 948's would be. The specs of the two are similar, the 936's sensitivity is stated as 92 dB, also rated 8 ohm nominal that is obvious too optimistic based on the impedance curve.

Regardless, even if the Cinema 30 can drive the larger 948 happily, if you have the amp, then trying it without is just a matter of satisfying your curiosity, I assume....