Neumann KH120 II

[teashea]

I received a pair of KH 120 II's today. I spent a few hours comparing them to a pair of KH 150's.

It was easy to match them in terms of level and the frequency switches. I do not think that this was an accident. I think that Neumann audio engineers very deliberately work to make their monitors have that family sound. (which is flat frequency response with low distortion).

I should note that I am a strong supporter of measurements and science and am always skeptical of subjective evaluations. I think this comes from my prior life as a psychologist.

Any way ------ this is my initial impression, yet to be confirmed with more listening comparison.

I cannot tell a difference between the KH 150's and KH 120 II's - with the exception of bass in the lowest octave.

I should also note that (except for EDM, which I do not listen to), it is a very rare pop, country or hip hop song that has any content down there. Producers very deliberately cutoff those bottom frequencies, even in the very unusual circumstance that the recording has any music down that low.

I had to very deliberately search for songs with content at a frequency low enough to distinguish the KH 150's from the KH 120 II's.

I will also be comparing the KH 120 II's to my KH 120's.

Here is a size comparison between a KH 120 II (left) and a KH 120.

 

[boxerfan88]

The II woofer looks smaller? Or are my eyes playing tricks on me?

The II tweeter waveguide looks deeper…

 

[Pearljam5000]

The II woofer looks smaller? Or are my eyes playing tricks on me?

The II tweeter waveguide looks deeper…

Also the distance between the tweeter and woofer is bigger

 

[Laserjock]

The II woofer looks smaller? Or are my eyes playing tricks on me?

The II tweeter waveguide looks deeper…

Both 5.25” and II just slightly taller.
145W woofer/100W tweeter vs 50W/50W for older version

II is about 3lbs lighter though?

 

[BDE]

I received a pair of KH 120 II's today. I spent a few hours comparing them to a pair of KH 150's.

It was easy to match them in terms of level and the frequency switches. I do not think that this was an accident. I think that Neumann audio engineers very deliberately work to make their monitors have that family sound. (which is flat frequency response with low distortion).

I should note that I am a strong supporter of measurements and science and am always skeptical of subjective evaluations. I think this comes from my prior life as a psychologist.

Any way ------ this is my initial impression, yet to be confirmed with more listening comparison.

I cannot tell a difference between the KH 150's and KH 120 II's - with the exception of bass in the lowest octave.

I should also note that (except for EDM, which I do not listen to), it is a very rare pop, country or hip hop song that has any content down there. Producers very deliberately cutoff those bottom frequencies, even in the very unusual circumstance that the recording has any music down that low.

I had to very deliberately search for songs with content at a frequency low enough to distinguish the KH 150's from the KH 120 II's.

I will also be comparing the KH 120 II's to my KH 120's.

Here is a size comparison between a KH 120 II (left) and a KH 120.
View attachment 285363

Nice to see!
You may also have a size comparison/ side by side of the 120II and KH150?
Maybe also in room measurements of 120II and KH150, to see the differences of the bass region in real environment?

 

[teashea]

The II woofer looks smaller? Or are my eyes playing tricks on me?

The II tweeter waveguide looks deeper…

Woofer is same size

 

[teashea]

Nice to see!
You may also have a size comparison/ side by side of the 120II and KH150?
Maybe also in room measurements of 120II and KH150, to see the differences of the bass region in real environment?

I am not set up to make meaningful measurements of speakers. I will have to leave that to Amir....... I know my subjective impressions are not worth so much. It is the measurements that count. Hopefully someone will give Amir a KH 120 II so he can measure it.

 

[regan]

I am not set up to make meaningful measurements of speakers. I will have to leave that to Amir....... I know my subjective impressions are not worth so much. It is the measurements that count. Hopefully someone will give Amir a KH 120 II so he can measure it.

How do you feel they compare to the old KH 120 II

 

[teashea]

How do you feel they compare to the old KH 120 II

I will be comparing the KH 120A's to the KH 120 II's. I will let you know.

 

[HQY]

50W/50W for older version

80W/80W for older version (THD+N with limiter deactivated: 10%), according to official data.

 

[auricom]

Neumann KH 120 II vs Kali Audio IN-5?
Is Neumann's room correction option superior to the (nonexistent?) in Kali?
Is it much worse than Genelec's? I would love to take it instead of 8330A.

Actually I ordered 2 x KH 120 II already because the price was much lower in one (totally good) store, but they don't have it in stock yet. But now my price should be set, if I decide to take them.

E. If someone wants to know, finnish site, 785€ https://www.scandinavianphoto.fi/neumann/kh-120-ii-1059326

 

[IamJF]

While the room correction software is a bit edgy the results seem to be better as Genelecs software.

 

[IamJF]

Thanks a lot for your effort! And why you would not do it this way? Where you see main trouble? Just imagine that somebody like me wants some simple solution with minimum equipment. Just some DAC/PRE + some non Neumann SUB + some KH 1xx monitors and only something like UMIC1 for seeing results. No MA1, nothing... Just right placement, right treatment, right blending SUB + monitors and finally some small EQ for lowering biggest peaks only. I'm not looking for EQ based PRO studio solution for one small sweet spot. I want good and balanced sound in my room at wider area.

You nee some possibility of delay for the sub and/or main speakers to get time&phase right. That's one of the main points of a proper subwoofer setup!
And it makes a lot of sense to get digital into these speakers. Digital in the 750 and digital chaining to KH120ii. Only DA conversion at the end of the chain. So you would need a DSP with digital and analog outputs and digital/USB inputs.

The over all result of Neumann system + MA1 is definitely more refined and precise with less hassle as what you describe.
But of course it's possible to put this together yourself ... it's probably not that much cheaper (you don't need a high quality interface/DSP/converter - just go digital to the 750) ... and that's probably why Neumann "overprices" this sub - cause they can

 

[IamJF]

I received a pair of KH 120 II's today. I spent a few hours comparing them to a pair of KH 150's.

It was easy to match them in terms of level and the frequency switches. I do not think that this was an accident. I think that Neumann audio engineers very deliberately work to make their monitors have that family sound. (which is flat frequency response with low distortion).

I should note that I am a strong supporter of measurements and science and am always skeptical of subjective evaluations. I think this comes from my prior life as a psychologist.

Any way ------ this is my initial impression, yet to be confirmed with more listening comparison.

I cannot tell a difference between the KH 150's and KH 120 II's - with the exception of bass in the lowest octave.

I should also note that (except for EDM, which I do not listen to), it is a very rare pop, country or hip hop song that has any content down there. Producers very deliberately cutoff those bottom frequencies, even in the very unusual circumstance that the recording has any music down that low.

I had to very deliberately search for songs with content at a frequency low enough to distinguish the KH 150's from the KH 120 II's.

I will also be comparing the KH 120 II's to my KH 120's.

Thanks for your comparison! Wow - that sounds really good! So an Atmos system out of 150 and 120ii seem to make a lot of sense.

Looking forward if you find similar things of KH120ii vs KH120 as I did in your room and setup!
I also ordered a B-stock KH80 for my stage piano, bitten by the bug. Let's do a comparison of these too ;-)

 

[Rednaxela]

While the room correction software is a bit edgy the results seem to be better as Genelecs software.

Really?

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Really?

I am not aware of an in depth comparison of MA1 and GLM, like how they handle subwoofer integration, to what degree dips in bass and peaks above Schroeder are treated and such.
Someone should take otherwise similar speakers from Neumann and Genelec, put them at the same position in the room and make before/after measurements. Not seen this yet.

 

[IamJF]

There is a test of the GLM system here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/genelec-glm-review-room-eq-setup.26397/
Sorry but that's rather "basic" correction nowerdays. But for sure better as nothing!

I read from different people that Neumanns correction is top notch, compareable to Trinnov. One guy sold his Trinnov after getting the Neumann setup. Never could compare that but the setup with KH750 and KH80 I did sounded pretty good in a sh!tty room.

GLM organisation is way better for big systems like a full Atmos set. Neumann will probably need a few more years to expand it that way ...

 

[DJBonoBobo]

There is a test of the GLM system here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/genelec-glm-review-room-eq-setup.26397/
Sorry but that's rather "basic" correction nowerdays. But for sure better as nothing!

Yes, but the Neumann result would look probably the same or close, if we see only FR.
Were it gets more interesting is the (dual) subwoofer integration.
GLM has a big plus with the report they are showing, though. That was a good idea!

 

[HQY]

I eventually placed an order for 120II to replace KH80 which I like very much. I am going to use 120II with a 750 at living room. The reasons I choose 120II over the 150 and 310 are: 1) A lot cheaper; 2) I can continue to use the Sound Anchors stands I ordered for KH80s; 3) Using with 750 may minimize the difference between 120II and 150; 4) would like to try digital connection between 750 and 120II; 5) To use the auto standby function that was no longger active with KH80s. I will see if one 750 is sufficient for 120II. If not, may add another 750. Looking forward to the 120II.

 

[auricom]

For us mortals even one KH 750 sub is very expensive (if we are getting KH 80 / KH 120) and the preferable 2 x is just too much.
If I was getting subs I would want 2, also I can't use them here at night, and not very loud when it's day too. And I live a lot at night.
Because it's for PC desktop use, sub is not too important anyway. Sure I would still like it. Cheaper subs are not on the level of Neumann speakers.
That's why I would ideally have KH 150 set, but it's also too much, so have to do with KH 120 II.
KH 310 feels a bit outdated now without DSP, and to me getting subs for it (to get DSP) would be waste of money.
Just my thoughts.

And isn't 6.5" a bit too large to work as a mid woofer with a subwoofer, ideally speaking? Sure there are benefits too, but I'm pretty sure at least value is worse.