NEWS: monolith amp with Hypex amplification!

[HammerSandwich]

So apparently 8 channels of NC502MP or NC252MP customized by Hypex by attaching a heatsink to their backs. And the same front panel as their current amps.

$2k for 8x100W looks like a steal with ATI's modular layout & cooling. Same price as AHB2 buys 8x200W, so that's pretty solid as well.

With the Monoprice stuff, like many reasonably priced brands, the margins are very thin. These manufacturers aren't gouging the customer by any stretch of the imagination. I work at an audio amplifier manufacturer (not Monoprice) and know the costs to build very well.

"Not Monoprice..." You're not fooling anybody, you know.

Thank you for the hints. Can you bridge a 100W module for ~400W?

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

I honestly don't know the difference... I've been using a 20 year old B&K AVR507 receiver since new on my 4ohm Polk LSI speakers... Just bought a new house with dedicated HT room so figured it was time to upgrade to this century... I appreciate your help

If you are upgrading after 20 years, get ready for your research mind numbing migraine.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

With the Monoprice stuff, like many reasonably priced brands, the margins are very thin. These manufacturers aren't gouging the customer by any stretch of the imagination. I work at an audio amplifier manufacturer (not Monoprice) and know the costs to build very well.

Explain. We really desire your expertise and opinion.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

"Not Monoprice..." You're not fooling anybody, you know.

Actually that's true. I have no association with them. I do know a lot about amplifiers though and when that topic comes up and I see there's something I can add, I do. I'm on the forum for the same reason most everyone is; to talk about audio gear (and especially reel to reel tape machines when the topic comes up).

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

I don't know what more you want. Like many industries, consumer electronics has thin margins. Mainstream audio is no exception, and especially so with parts shortages. I have no idea what the mega high end audio amps which sell for 50k have as margins; you'd have to ask them.

You said "you know costs to build very well." I assumed you were excluding mega overpriced high end, and current parts shortages are irrelevant. You opened the door

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

You said "you know costs to build very well." I assumed you were excluding mega overpriced high end, and current parts shortages are irrelevant. You opened the door

I've worked at audio companies as an engineer since the 80s - of course I know how much it costs to build an audio amplifier. Don't you know a lot of details about whatever job you do? I'm sure as hell not going to discuss those details on an open forum. Geez.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

I've worked at audio companies as an engineer since the 80s - of course I know how much it costs to build an audio amplifier. Don't you know a lot of details about whatever job you do? I'm sure as hell not going to discuss those details on an open forum. Geez.

I am a trial attorney. You would not do well under cross examination. I truly thought you could provide insight on costs relating to performance.

 

[abdo123]

The heatsinks are likely to help keep those capacitors that people here carp about more cool, which would be better for longer term longevity. You kinda get what you pay for.

Heat sinks don’t cool capacitors. In fact it will probably do more harm if the heat sink or heat pipes are in close proximity to the capacitors.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Heat sinks don’t cool capacitors. In fact it will probably do more harm if the heat sink or heat pipes are in close proximity to the capacitors.

Capacitors can be damaged by heat from other components. Heat sinks help those other components stay cooler. From the looks of the 502 module there are lots of active components right underneath many of the capacitors on the board. A good heat sink should carry away a lot of the heat, certainly more than no heat sink at all or a very minimal heat sink. From the module I saw in that video the heat sink is on the opposite side of where the capacitors are so there should be no problem from that source.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I am a trial attorney. You would not do well under cross examination. I truly thought you could provide insight on costs relating to performance.

This is an audio forum not a courtroom and there is nothing to cross examine. You seem to be unaware of that fact.

 

[abdo123]

Capacitors can be damaged by heat from other components. Heat sinks help those other components stay cooler. From the looks of the 502 module there are lots of active components right underneath many of the capacitors on the board. A good heat sink should carry away a lot of the heat, certainly more than no heat sink at all or a very minimal heat sink. From the module I saw in that video the heat sink is on the opposite side of where the capacitors are so there should be no problem from that source.

If the heat stays in the chip then theoretically the capacitors are safer that way. But this is not about the capacitors.

Air is a terrible thermal conductor.

The heat sinks are there to cool the chips (while simultaneously heating everything around it up).

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

This is an audio forum not a courtroom and there is nothing to cross examine. You seem to be unaware of that fact.

Wow. A dissembling expert.

 

[mcdn]

Wow. A dissembling expert.

@MakeMineVinyl works for a manufacturer and for all the time I've been on the forum they've been clear they don't want to say which one, nor where they've worked previously. Probably because they don't want to get flooded with questions. If you want to pick a beef with someone there are plenty of less constructive contributors to go after.

It's not like this upcoming amp has strange objectives - it's just Hypex modules heatsinked well enough to run at rated power for a long time. Same as with the Apollon equivalent. It therefore costs more than the same modules assembled so that they can only run at rated power for a short period of time.

 

[DS23MAN]

The NC501/2MP needs proper heatsinking, have a look at the Fusion plate amps:

Hypex FusionAmp FA502 with on-board SMPS and DSP

The Hypex FA502 has two 500 Wrms Ncore® amplifiers which can be bridged to form one 500 Wrms amplifier. Output power: 4Ω: 2x 500W, 8Ω: 2x 350W

www.hypex.nl

Cooling duct with a ventilator because the plate it not sufficient enough. The smaller Fusion amps can run on just the backplate.

It's not a good idea to put several NC502's on the bottom of a box with low thermal mass.....

 

[Matias]

I am a trial attorney. You would not do well under cross examination. I truly thought you could provide insight on costs relating to performance.

Check the 2nd tab with the charts.

Amplifier SINAD list ASR + 3rd parties

List Name,THD+N (5W, 4 ohms),SINAD (dB) (5W, 4 ohms),Power (W) (1% THD+N, 4 ohms),Price (USD),Source Topping LA90 (stereo, bypass, low gain),0.00009%,121,90,800,<a href="https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/topping-la90/">L7 Audio Lab</a>,Suggestions, corrections and more info here: Topping LA90 Discre...

docs.google.com

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

@MakeMineVinyl works for a manufacturer and for all the time I've been on the forum they've been clear they don't want to say which one, nor where they've worked previously. Probably because they don't want to get flooded with questions. If you want to pick a beef with someone there are plenty of less constructive contributors to go after.

It's not like this upcoming amp has strange objectives - it's just Hypex modules heatsinked well enough to run at rated power for a long time. Same as with the Apollon equivalent. It therefore costs more than the same modules assembled so that they can only run at rated power for a short period of time.

Thank you. You are the voice of reason in a world of hysteria. And yes, I just want to be an average Joe and enjoy the forum as a civilian. If I can bring clarity to some topics I know a lot about, that's great.

 

[HammerSandwich]

Actually that's true. I have no association with them.

Apologies, I didn't mean to imply that. Based on later posts, I'll shut up about it.

 

[HammerSandwich]

If the heat stays in the chip then theoretically the capacitors are safer that way. But this is not about the capacitors.

Air is a terrible thermal conductor.

The heat sinks are there to cool the chips (while simultaneously heating everything around it up).

The heat does not stays in the component which creates it, at least not for long.

When power consumption exceeds instantaneous cooling capacity, the hot side's temperature rises - which increases the heat transfer - until the system achieves balance. The key point is that good heatsinks transfer the same amount of heat as lousy ones, and in the same amount of time, because that heat load is set by the power consumption. A heatsink's effectiveness is just a question of how hot everything must become before you reach balanced operation or something fails.

The other important detail is that the cooling air's temperature increase is dictated by power consumption & the quantity of air, not the heatsink. IOW, a better heatsink doesn't increase ambient temperatures inside the case. How could it when it's transferring the same amount of energy to the same mass of air? Therefore, it won't bake nearby components. Actually, considering that thermal radiation is proportional to temperature^4, cooling a hot component should slightly reduce its neighbors' temperatures as well.

That's the steady-state view, meaning everything is fully warmed up with constant power consumption & temperature. Dynamic power consumption adds thermal-mass effects, with more mass holding component temperatures closer to the long-term average, but all of the principles are the same.

 

[FrankF]

Thank you. You are the voice of reason in a world of hysteria. And yes, I just want to be an average Joe and enjoy the forum as a civilian. If I can bring clarity to some topics I know a lot about, that's great.

I seem to recall @MakeMineVinyl original moniker was the company he worked for. I don't want to give it away, however, it was a 3 letter name beginning with A and ending with I.

 

[BlackTalon]

I am a trial attorney. You would not do well under cross examination. I truly thought you could provide insight on costs relating to performance.

In my personnel experience, it is pretty common for engineers to frustrate attorneys when being deposed and when testifying. We are good at sticking to our guns and giving the exact same answer even when the question is reframed 30 different ways.