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Parts Express DIY C-Note Speaker Review

uwotm8

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kali lp6 vs c note.png
What amplifier you're feeding them with?
It doesn't look like HF shelf/mistuned tweeter level - that curve shape tells me that some EQ or rather tone control (treble boost) is applied. Check amp and source:)
 

Dennis Murphy

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Did you ever resolve this? I have a pair of C-Notes here for a crossover mod, and I've modeled every error or defect that I can think of, and I can't recreate that rising treble.
 

Dennis Murphy

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Did you ever resolve this? I have a pair of C-Notes here for a crossover mod, and I've modeled every error or defect that I can think of, and I can't recreate that rising treble.
Since I mentioned I was doing a crossover mod (in response to some requests on the AVS forum), I did complete one and to my eyes and ears it improved the sound significantly. Basically, I brought down the 700 Hz bump and changed the tweeter topology to keep the the treble in line with the new midrange level while retaining as many components as possible from the stock BOM. I found the stock sound somewhat blurred in the midrange due to the woofer peak and the resulting obscuring of detail in the lower treble. The mod requires the purchase of a $6-$7 2.0 mH steel laminate inductor and a couple of resistors.
 

badspeakerdesigner

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Did you ever resolve this? I have a pair of C-Notes here for a crossover mod, and I've modeled every error or defect that I can think of, and I can't recreate that rising treble.

I did not, PE said they would contact me but they haven't, I think communication got lost somewhere. I still don't know why I get the HF shelf, even if I import my own drivevr measurements into vcad it looks fine. No idea. Last thing they said was it was my environment but I get the same results no matter where I measure. I've ended up just tossing a HF shelf on them and setting to taste. I almost made a video showing me measure them, swapping amps, DAC's, etc

So this is where I'm at = ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'd be willing to grab parts for that new xover design you mention and wire it up and compare if you're interested in that.

I do have a dx25 + wg300 that I wanted to try to utilize for my own speaker. It seems to track pretty well against Heismanns data, with about 10db difference between the mid range and top end.


dx25 wg300.png
 
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Dennis Murphy

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I did not, PE said they would contact me but they haven't, I think communication got lost somewhere. I still don't know why I get the HF shelf, even if I import my own drivevr measurements into vcad it looks fine. No idea. Last thing they said was it was my environment but I get the same results no matter where I measure. I've ended up just tossing a HF shelf on them and setting to taste. I almost made a video showing me measure them, swapping amps, DAC's, etc

So this is where I'm at = ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'd be willing to grab parts for that new xover design you mention and wire it up and compare if you're interested in that.

I do have a dx25 + wg300 that I wanted to try to utilize for my own speaker. It seems to track pretty well against Heismanns data, with about 10db difference between the mid range and top end.


View attachment 262406
This is really weird. So both speakers in the pair measure the same? Where are you located?
 

badspeakerdesigner

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This is really weird. So both speakers in the pair measure the same? Where are you located?

yeah they're both identical, which you know is great for consistency at least. I'm over in Ohio (unfortunately).

And of course as I'm using them, I just noticed one has some vibration issues with mid range content, guess I might need to gasket up some things a bit more than I already have.
 
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Dennis Murphy

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yeah they're both identical, which you know is great for consistency at least. I'm over in Ohio (unfortunately).

And of course as I'm using them, I just noticed one has some vibration issues with mid range content, guess I might need to gasket up some things a bit more than I already have.
Stuff like this isn't supposed to happen. We're going to figure this out. Here's how my tweeter measures with no crossover in line--it's the raw response. Is this how yours measures with no crossover?
1675568320005.png
 

pjug

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Did you ever resolve this? I have a pair of C-Notes here for a crossover mod, and I've modeled every error or defect that I can think of, and I can't recreate that rising treble.
I have not followed this thread closely but the phase of the C-note is negative at high freqs. Speakers with this don't do well with Class D amps without PFFB and will result in peaking at high frequencies. I'm not sure I am on target with that applying here but thought I would offer it.
edit: for example see what happens to the Aiyima A07 driving @pma's dummy load
 
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badspeakerdesigner

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Stuff like this isn't supposed to happen. We're going to figure this out. Here's how my tweeter measures with no crossover in line--it's the raw response. Is this how yours measures with no crossover?
I took this awhile back when I first noticed the issue, it's the tweeter raw, then with the xover hooked up. It's all I have at the moment but I can take a new one if need be.

9rPc5i3 - Imgur.png
 

pjug

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I took this awhile back when I first noticed the issue, it's the tweeter raw, then with the xover hooked up. It's all I have at the moment but I can take a new one if need be.

View attachment 262440
What amplifier are you using? Can you measure the freq response of the amplifier output voltage when driving the (assembed with crossovers) C-Notes?
 

badspeakerdesigner

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I currently have an aiyima a07 and smsl sa36, I believe I get identical data with each one. I'd have to go back and test them to confirm.
 

pjug

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I currently have an aiyima a07 and smsl sa36, I believe I get identical data with each one. I'd have to go back and test them to confirm.
Do you have a Class AB amplifier available to try with the C-Notes? I do think you are seeing peaking caused by Class D without post filter feedback, into a load with negative phase at high frequencies. I copied @pma 's curve with Aiyima A07 (thread linked in my previous post) into his dummy load, which looks similar to what you are seeing with your setup.

aiyima_vs_250W4Ramp_freqresp_dummy.png


Frequency response of two amps into dummy load
 
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fpitas

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These amps are all I have at the moment and no funds to get anything else to rule them out.
Does a friend have an old AB amp of any sort? It doesn't have to be fancy.
 

badspeakerdesigner

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Does a friend have an old AB amp of any sort? It doesn't have to be fancy.

Not that I know of sadly, all my friends are musicians and have active monitors. I'll try and see what I can find locally, maybe a cheap receiver.
 
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badspeakerdesigner

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Do you have a Class AB amplifier available to try with the C-Notes? I do think you are seeing peaking caused by Class D without post filter feedback, into a load with negative phase at high frequencies. I copied @pma 's curve with Aiyima A07 (thread linked in my previous post) into his dummy load, which looks similar to what you are seeing with your setup.



Frequency response of two amps into dummy load

I think we have a winner, went to a friends place to test out his Audiosource Amp 100 which is class A/B. He also had an Aiyima A07 as well. As you can see the Aiyima exhibits the HF rise, while the Audiosource does not.

Guess I need a new amplifier or new xover design on the tweeter, one of those is much easier than the other so I will probably get a new amp.

amp100 orange a07 green.png
 

pjug

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Guess I need a new amplifier or new xover design on the tweeter, one of those is much easier than the other so I will probably get a new amp.
I wonder if you can tame the peak with a shunt (RC) across the amplifier or speaker terminals. Not ideal but possibly it would help. @pma have you tried this? Top image without shunt, bottom model with shunt (with 80dB flat speaker response to just show the filter effects). The component values are guesswork since I don't know what values are inside the amplifier. Maybe @pma knows. I wouldn't do this until someone who knows this stuff better offers an opinion whether it is OK to try it.
1676467961695.png



1676467739281.png
 

badspeakerdesigner

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Since I mentioned I was doing a crossover mod (in response to some requests on the AVS forum), I did complete one and to my eyes and ears it improved the sound significantly. Basically, I brought down the 700 Hz bump and changed the tweeter topology to keep the the treble in line with the new midrange level while retaining as many components as possible from the stock BOM. I found the stock sound somewhat blurred in the midrange due to the woofer peak and the resulting obscuring of detail in the lower treble. The mod requires the purchase of a $6-$7 2.0 mH steel laminate inductor and a couple of resistors.

Hi Dennis, any chance you could go into detail on the xover mod, I would like to try it.

Oh and for anyone reading, it turns out that the amps I was using were causing the HF issue. It was fixed when I bought a better amp.
 

Dennis Murphy

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Paging @Dennis Murphy - the world waits with bated breath for your crossover mod!
There are probably a lot of other subjects more worthy of bated breath. I'll have to revisit this. I don't remember how much my mod improved things. I'll fire up the stock and modded version tomorrow and see whether it's worth the hassle.
 
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