It is not ”theory” it is the actual measurements, that measure the quality of the amps/dac etc. These can be audible or in some cases may not. Amps measure poor relative to Denon and others (both in output and noise). DAC measures poor at 2V. Measures OK ish at 1v. If you need/want better amplification that it provides and use external amps, be sure they don’t need more than 1V to be driven fully.
There are many websites claiming it is good. Many of these claim to be reviews but often times are nothing more than a press release, subjective opinion, and/or paid for by the manufacturer.
Dirac does do a really good job. In particular if doing full range EQ IMO. But if the poor amps/dac become an issue that can’t overcome hardware limitations.
Sure. But also know that Amir expects manufacturers to up their game when it comes to basic hardware that he believes should be commonplace now. Whether or not you agree with that aim is up to you.
This is what I have been trying to say for a whileEE here, firmly believing that measurements do describe what we hear, up to a point. This will be a bit long. No more excuses, here is my story:
I did my homework and read all this thread. Twice. As I read many other threads about receivers and room correction systems here on asr. I read all the NADT758 avsforum thread (incredbile, I know, 620+pages then, 631 today). All right, I did that just once Hello Markus! Read about when you were banned, reading anxious to find out why, enjoyed your return and so on. I knew it all beforehand, I knew this NAD will be returned, I knew it would sound bad, I could hear the harshness of it’s horrific SINAD inside my head just reading all this but still... this NAD seemed polarising and I love a good controversy.
My room + not so well placed Yahama NS777s doesn't seem to like Denon's take on room correction so I ordered a NAD T758v3i fully knowing that it is the worst measuring receiver on the whole planet – by far. I expected to play for a month with DIRAC, see what it can do with my room and, being objectivelly the worst measuring receiver (by far!) I would definitelly hear some of it shorcommings and send it back within the return window. I had an UMIK-1 prepared in advance for that month of bad sound. And I pressed the order button.
I had my share of frustrations until I finally understood there is no way to get usable CEC with NAD+Philips TV (sorry Markus for not believing you from the start. I cursed the Spotify or Tidal problems until I boutgh a better router (a wi-fi mesh) that fixed the issues. I still grasp at how bad DIRAC software can be (on Windows at least) and I am trully skeptical on how well the filters can be computed seeing that the programmers have insurmontable issues just letting the main app window maximizing by itself. Or countless crashes, unexpected app closings and so on. By now wireless works well, I don’t need DIRAC Windows software anymore because all is set, CEC is a long distant memory and the spring will soon be here. So here I am, listening to Rusty Egan, Slow Down, on my Yamaha NS777s in my nasty room with my NAD T758v3i. SINAD, well - it is horrific for sure, as we seen, but the sound in my room is – you know the saying – night and day (sorry, cound’t resist being autoironic) compared with what I got before with a stereo amp, NAD C375BEE. Would I be able to better fix my room with anything that measures better within about the same budget? Couldn’t care less by now, just trully enjoy the relaxed sound I got. This NAD proved to be a keeper, wining against bias and measurements and my tehnical education.
By no means I imply that measurements are not important or good measuring manufacturers shouldn't be encouraged or similar. Just that sometimes we get to obsess about numbers, loosing in the process the larger picture. This NAD T758v3i was a distinct moment when the enginner in me was proven wrong: bad measurements can be less relevant. Harshenss? Cannot find any. I read the argument that including DIRAC should not save NAD reputation, fully agree but still, here I am with no better alternative that a horrific SINAD and still happy. Enough writing, I will return to my Topping DX3pro+my Senn hd600 to redeem myself with some minutes of better SINAD
Not if they're buying a Denon instead!
How many units brag about good ASR reviews?
I don't think you will find any manufacturers of AVR's bragging, but I think that misses the point. When someone is in the market for one, they start researching for reviews. Now when they research what to buy one consideration will be the data from Amir's reviews. Reviews showing good performance are important because more and more people shopping are paying attention to objective performance. It isn't and shouldn't be the only consideration (features, warranty, support, etc also play a major role). I would say the Amir's review of the Denon x3600/x3700 (and most Denon units in general) have made a difference in the number sold. If you peruse AVSForum now on people asking what to buy these Denon units get recommended all the time and often time there is a link to an ASR review. The opposite is also true where a unit that is poorly reviewed is linked to ASR. While difficult to quantify for sure, it does have an effect. It would be interesting seeing how many clicks from AVSForum come into ASR in any given month linking to the reviews.
Good reply/post. For sure it's having an effect, enough that Denon went back to the drawing board and cleaned up their AVR line for the 2020/21 model year. People are doing their homework and reading the reviews here and many manufacturer know it, but they're not going to advertise their failings.
Especially if they're buying a Denon instead, and they're stuck with something as primitive as Audyssey.
When was the last time you used Audyssey?
I think the 2018 models were already really solid. Weren't the only major changes to add preamp mode for all channels, the ability to load 2 Audyssey files into the AVR, and HDMI 2.1?
Hopefully the new PC software they are working on puts that idea to rest!
I used the editor app with XT32 in 2017 and again in 2019 setting up other systems. I helped a friend who was trying to emulate the sound of my Dirac system for cheaper and Audyssey didn't cut it, bass was too bloated with the same target curve I use on my Dirac system, and imaging was less precise. His fix was to upgrade to this NAD. That was a few years ago and since then he has upgraded to the HTP-1 with Bass Control.
