my own theory on this is the change in educational methods; learning by rote was abandoned. Consequently no mental discipline is developed. You have to learn to walk before you can run.
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Tekton M-Lore Speaker Measurement Update
- Thread starter amirm
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After all, Eric does seem to have other interesting designs worthy of audition / measurement / review.
It needs some trophies on top to be complete.
olieb
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That might very well be the case. But printing a few remarks on the graph will not really help that.
Actually I think there are at least as many who do not look at the graphs in any meaningful way (as it does not tell them much), but will mainly try to interpret the remarks, the graph is just an illustration at this point.
I would prefer the remarks below the graph like @KSTR does, but mainly for aesthetic reasons. I do not like the red arrows and the dashed lines either, but that is just my taste and I understand why the arrows are there.
My guess is, that many would like to have a single number (like sinad) for speakers. The preference score does give them that, but Amir is not calculating it for good reasons.
I did too. I heard commercial 901's at a college event and was super impressed. I ended up buying Bose. First the 601's and later the 901's. The "crime" committed by Bose in the eyes of CR was they didn't have a flat frequency response. Or more accurately, they didn't conform to CR's measuring standards and rating system.
markus
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See, "chemtrails" are real!
I don't think human stupidity has generally increased. It probably has more to do with human nature and the changed availability of information in this day and age.
I also think it is a good idea, but Amir decides what to do, when to do it, not purely because "it is his platform" but, I reckon, because he has extensive experience in writing and presenting such things. HE HAS HIS REASONS!
I am sure, he considers opinions presented to him, and if he thinks fit, he may implement them somehow.
Surely, not you nor me, have pointed any finger of blame at ASR, obviously it has all been something ado about nothing.
But if some good can come out of this, it would a fine-tuning that you suggested, i.e. presenting facts (test results) separate from interpretations at some part.
It will be extra work on Amir's part. Will it stop future moaners at bay, I doubt it, moaners moan.
@amirm did videos how to interpred the measurements. You just have to view them. If people not understand the graphs its there lazynes.
I like to have the coments on the graphs that gives maximum information density.
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Ken1951
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I started in the main store of an audio chain in the summer of 1973 and we still had a pair of Bozak 302a in the large showroom. Their best use came a little while later as a stand for a pair of AR-LST!Back when I was an audio sales drone circa 1970, we had a pair of those sitting just outside the showroom gathering dust. Nobody was the least bit interested, but just for fun we hooked them up and listened -- definitely not impressive, especially considering their massive size. I have no idea how many drivers that pair had.
Lol, at over 6 ft tall and 225 lbs., it surely could flatten!
On its side, reminds me of a couple of gattling guns with some side cannons. With that bass peak, sure it has plenty of boom too.
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We had a pair of those too. Their performance was embarrassing compared to similarly priced AR and KLH models, but our audio buyer was good friends with Rudy Bozak, so there's that....
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You are referencing the Bose 901 review, that resulted in the famous litigation? I don't think the FR was the main issue, although CR did comment on that. I'm not even sure the loudspeaker was measured (I don't have a copy of the original review, though).
The complaint turned on the reviewer's (actually 2 listeners) subjective impressions about what we would now call 'imaging'. An excerpt of the review cited from the court ruling:
But after listening to a number of recordings, it became clear that the panelists could pinpoint the location of various instruments much more easily with a standard speaker than with the Bose system. Worse, individual instruments heard through the Bose system seemed to grow to gigantic proportions and tended to wander about the room. For instance, a violin appeared to be 10 feet wide and a piano stretched from wall to wall. With orchestral music, such effects seemed inconsequential. But we think they might become annoying when listening to soloists. On an impulse, we also played some monophonic records through the Bose. To our surprise, they too acquired the same spacial openness and size distortions as the stereo records.
Bose's main complaint was about the '10 foot wide violin' and 'instruments wandering around the room', and how this was 'worse'--that word's meaning. Bose claimed the review constituted libel because it was neither factual nor accurate. The appeals court found that the wording in the CR review was vague, and likely not an accurate description of the loudspeaker's actual sonic presentation. Indeed, the court questioned whether the reviewer's actually heard what was described in print, but it in the end decided that although the review might have been 'sloppy' or hyperbolic, it was the magazine's opinion, and no malicious intent was involved.
The evidence presented merely shows that the words in the article may not have described precisely what the two panelists heard during the listening test. CU was guilty of using imprecise language in the article — perhaps resulting from an attempt to produce a readable article for its mass audience. Certainly this does not support an inference of actual malice.
In fact, excerpts of the Bose review cited show that CU thought the loudspeaker did pretty well with orchestral music:
The overall sound was of good quality . . . [but] the speakers tended to overemphasize the middle bass, giving it a somewhat overly full, heavy sound... the Bose 901 is so unusual . . . a prospective buyer must listen to it and judge it for himself. [Also the Bose 901] requires a gigantic amount of power and recommended an amplifier of 50 watts per channel for the deepest base response.
Butthurt snake oil guru it is what it is classic audiophile drama.
Its best to ignore them.
Anyway, the speaker doesnt even look half bad, its crazy how insecure they are about someone elses opinion when its even just slightly backed up with graphs, i guess they are scared this crowd is as easily brainwashed as theirs.
Its best to ignore them.
Anyway, the speaker doesnt even look half bad, its crazy how insecure they are about someone elses opinion when its even just slightly backed up with graphs, i guess they are scared this crowd is as easily brainwashed as theirs.
steve59
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I'm commenting after reading only the first 20 posts to this thread. I agree the Tekton rep did himself no favors losing his self control over this review. When JA posted the measured shortcomings of the much more expensive Be' upgraded version of the speakers in stereophile the company reply was along the lines of 'We think we offer fair value at the price point for their speakers', much easier to take than threats. As to condemning these as audiophile nonsense, well, I guess we can blame audiophiles if the car doesn't start in the morning, but the more you guys blame 'audiophiles' for the more blurred the definition of the word becomes. I would ABSOLUTELY say Revel is an audiophile company while Tekton is a head banger company that competes with the like of Cerwyn Vega, ie fun, loud, and reasonably affordable block party speakers. We are are all allowed to have our own values and I suppose we're also allowed to hate on folk who have different values.
Amirm rose above the Tekton response by replying professionally. When we reply with name calling and our other means of jaded emotion we reduce ourselves as men to children. I'm reminding myself out loud here curious if anyone agrees?
Amirm rose above the Tekton response by replying professionally. When we reply with name calling and our other means of jaded emotion we reduce ourselves as men to children. I'm reminding myself out loud here curious if anyone agrees?
*SIGH!* Demanding you redo things, whilst failing to provide any measurements?? Epic fail.
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I can hardly type I'm laughing so hard. Is this phrase open source?
May I use this in future reviews of grossly multi-driver speakers?
I can hardly type I'm laughing so hard. Is this phrase open source?
May I use this in future reviews of grossly multi-driver speakers?
Happy to share!
It’s the Bossman himself, as well as the alleged designer of the speakers.
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Winning and losing in the court of US law is very different than the cost and annoyance of dealing with it. I just spent $600k to defend a 90k$ lawsuit that the idiot wouldn’t drop or settle. Pyrrhic victory. Took 3 years before it even saw a judge. Thanks for stooping down and dealing with it professionally. Probably want to consider picking up some basic insurance and corporate structure for ASR to shield your family from idiots if you haven’t already.
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