Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

[mdsimon2]

That is probably overkill. 96+ is for humans, I guess. I agree with you.



Not surprising. Definitely can't be better than that if listened through loudspeakers, which are considered super-duper-extraordinary when the distortion is at -60Db when 1W is through them (like my modified Beyma TPL-150H AMTs, and only in some frequency ranges), and often have THD at -40Db, i.e. 1% if I am not mistaken.

As for listen through headphones, it may be a bit better, but I am not sure.

We do not actually listen to the DACs and amps, at least not in a pure way, they are mostly masked: 99% of what we hear are the transducers.

Remember that SINAD is a combination of noise and distortion. A DAC with 96 dB SINAD that is dominated by noise will likely have audible noise with amplifiers of typical gain. Distortion is a completely different story and much less audible but I want my DACs to have a dynamic range of at least 110 dB at 2 V output to avoid noise. You can get around this if you use a high quality analog preamp for volume control but for 8 channels that is not very practicable.

Michael

 

[mocenigo]

Remember that SINAD is a combination of noise and distortion. A DAC with 96 dB SINAD that is dominated by noise will likely have audible noise with amplifiers of typical gain. Distortion is a completely different story and much less audible but I want my DACs to have a dynamic range of at least 110 dB at 2 V output to avoid noise. You can get around this if you use a high quality analog preamp for volume control but for 8 channels that is not very practicable.

Michael

Fair enough. I had DACs where I could hear some noise through the speakers (when staying VERY close to the transducers, and they had to be very sensitive). But sound-quality-wise there was otherwise no difference wrt other more silent DACs. I could not have spotted the difference from the listening position.

 

[AudioArchitech]

I know this is a bit off topic here, but the PecanPi is a Raspberry Pi and a DAC in a box? Which DAC?

It's Orchard Audio's DAC Hat and a Pi in a box with both Balanced XLR and RCA Outs. It sounds great, very pleased with it so far. I have only had it connected to a Aiyima A08 so far, excited to try it on PA5.

 

[Sengin]

Best option between the two is to use XLR Splitter Cable From DAC to Headphone Amp and PA5

Even with the additional converstion to TRS?

I'm kinda surprised the PA5 doesn't have XLR input considering most (all?) of Toppings' products that have balanced outputs are XLR. PA7 maybe?

 

[Sengin]

I have the same problem and I've just taken a DoukAudio "3 IN - 3 OUT" splitter/selector. The model "1 IN - 3 OUT" is used by ASR.

That looks nice, but it also means I need to find a place for it (e.g. mount it under the desk). It's also more expensive than a simple 1:2 XLR splitter.

 

[AudioArchitech]

XLR to TRS is the same thing, no conversion, just a different form factor connector. Easy to build them too if you can solder. Look up How To on Youtube and Googs.. Nice thing about building them is you can make nice short 12" cables or whatever length you want (well, keep it below 100 feet : ) Recommend Neutrik connectors.

 

[Sengin]

XLR to TRS is the same thing, no conversion, just a different form factor connector. Easy to build them too if you can solder. Look up How To on Youtube and Googs.. Nice thing about building them is you can make nice short 12" cables or whatever length you want (well, keep it below 100 feet : ) Recommend Neutrik connectors.
View attachment 181593

Hah, yeah I'd want a really short cable - definitely don't want a hundo! I learned how to solder a couple things related to keyboards, so that is a possibility...

Based on the stats of the PA5, I shouldn't have to worry about the volume drop for splitting right? I assume it can still get plenty loud enough (e.g. for the Elac Debut Reference DBR-62) considering I'd be near field.

 

[AudioArchitech]

If the other amp (ie: headphone amp) is off, for sure with get max volume. If both amps are on and sharing the signal, and both amps are cranked up, could notice some volume drop, even then I think that could be tough. Someone else here may be keen to do the math.

I would build your own Female XLR to 1-Male XLR and 1-Male TRS cable. 2 wires go to the Female XLR connector could be tricky to fit and solder, but I could picture doing it. Not sure how the 2 cables will fit through the cable strain relief portion of the connector though. I haven't done it yet myself, but may do it soon.

 

[Sengin]

If the other amp (ie: headphone amp) is off, for sure with get max volume. If both amps are on and sharing the signal, and both amps are cranked up, could notice some volume drop, even then I think that could be tough. Someone else here may be keep to do the math.

Ah in my case I would only ever have one on at a time (it would remain plugged into both though). I was actually hoping for a combo headphone amp + speaker amp unit so I could just flip a switch to changes headphones <-> speakers, but unfortunately the A90 has only XLR outputs and they don't have a model with speaker outs . If only...

 

[AudioArchitech]

You could sell your Dac and Headphone amp and get a DAC with Headphone amp built-in. Plenty of options, ie: SMSL M500, Topping EX5.... I guess it depends on your headphones...

edit: EX5

 

[antcollinet]

If the other amp (ie: headphone amp) is off, for sure with get max volume. If both amps are on and sharing the signal, and both amps are cranked up, could notice some volume drop, even then I think that could be tough. Someone else here may be keen to do the math.

I would build your own Female XLR to 1-Male XLR and 1-Male TRS cable. 2 wires go to the Female XLR connector could be tricky to fit and solder, but I could picture doing it. Not sure how the 2 cables will fit through the cable strain relief portion of the connector though. I haven't done it yet myself, but may do it soon.

Switching the headphone amp off won't remove its input impedance. It will still drop the signal. However, the signal is not halved, since balanced connections don't generally have balanced output to input impdences. So the drop will only be small.

 

[AudioArchitech]

Exactly, won’t be an issue since Dac’s output between 4-5V and PA5 Input maxes out at 2.6V.

 

[Sengin]

You could sell your Dac and Headphone amp and get a DAC with Headphone amp built-in. Plenty of options, ie: SMSL M500, Topping EX5.... I guess it depends on your headphones...

Yep this is what I've been researching for the past few weeks. If either of those had the Topping/SMSL satisfying-to-use clunk/thock switches on the front (e.g. SMSL SP200, Topping A90 or even this very PA5) I'd already have one . I prefer to interact with my devices directly considering they are so close and don't want to be forced into using a remote or fiddly two-button menu navigation. But I also understand that not everyone feels this way.

If I decide on active speaker I'll get either the HO200 or A90. Passive speakers? Probably the PA5 (unless I decide to gamble that a PA7/PA9 or MX7/MX9 will come out in the near-ish future and go with a PA3s temporarily...).

 

[AudioArchitech]

Ya, that HO200 and A90 look cool, looks similar to PA5 with those toggle switches.

Nobsound 3-IN-1-OUT XLR Audio Switch ; Balanced Audio Converter ; 3-Way Stereo Passive Audio Selector Switcher (MC103 Pro 3-in) looks like a great option too:​

 

[Walter]

Even with the additional converstion to TRS?

I'm kinda surprised the PA5 doesn't have XLR input considering most (all?) of Toppings' products that have balanced outputs are XLR. PA7 maybe?

E50 and D10 Balanced use TRS. The PA5 is on the E50/L50 format.

 

[Sengin]

E50 and D10 Balanced use TRS. The PA5 is on the E50/L50 format.

So they do! I must have looked too quickly and thought they were RCA outputs, oops

 

[AudioArchitech]

I finally managed to plug in my new PA5 about 1 hr. ago. I shouldn't say anything yet till I get a chance to really test it out more. But I can't help but post my first impressions, I'm nervous about the sound so far! It sounds excellent at low levels, but as soon as I turn it up a bit to medium levels it degrades. Snare drum sounds terrible... General first impressions so far, more detail, soundstage but mids don't sound natural at modest levels, bass a tad weak overall. I was thinking "is this unit defective"? Is it a fake? (bought from HiFiGo). So far, I think my Aiyima A08 beats it no problem. My previous Audiolab 6000A beat the A08, but not as easy as the A08 beating the PA5. Not what I was expecting at all, I had much higher expectations. Will let it burn in overnight (just in case : ) and play around with it more tomorrow. Further testing, will post my further impressions soon.

Of course, this is purely subjective, my room, my speakers...etc..

Source: Orchard Audio PecanPi Tidal (connected XLR to TRS)

 

[MarkWinston]

My impressiom

I finally managed to plug in my new PA5 about 1 hr. ago. I shouldn't say anything yet till I get a chance to really test it out more. But I can't help but post my first impressions, I'm nervous about the sound so far! It sounds excellent at low levels, but as soon as I turn it up a bit to medium levels it degrades. Snare drum sounds terrible... General first impressions so far, more detail, soundstage but mids don't sound natural at modest levels, bass a tad weak overall. I was thinking "is this unit defective"? Is it a fake? (bought from HiFiGo). So far, I think my Aiyima A08 beats it no problem. My previous Audiolab 6000A beat the A08, but not as easy as the A08 beating the PA5. Not what I was expecting at all, I had much higher expectations. Will let it burn in overnight (just in case : ) and play around with it more tomorrow. Further testing, will post my further impressions soon.

Of course, this is purely subjective, my room, my speakers...etc..

Source: Orchard Audio PecanPi Tidal (connected XLR to TRS)

My impressions were the total opposite, the more i turned it up the more it had control over things. Definitely more control than my DA9. The A07 sounded rubbish in comparison. The PA5 is also DAC dependent (duuuh), and its not comparable to the 6000A until its paired with a DAC of that calibre that the 6000A is using internally. Using the PA5 with the D70S and Diamond 12.2/R200. Amazing.

 

[AudioArchitech]

Possibly not a great system synergy thing going on here. Wish I had another Balanced DAC to compare with.

 

[antcollinet]

I finally managed to plug in my new PA5 about 1 hr. ago. I shouldn't say anything yet till I get a chance to really test it out more. But I can't help but post my first impressions, I'm nervous about the sound so far! It sounds excellent at low levels, but as soon as I turn it up a bit to medium levels it degrades. Snare drum sounds terrible... General first impressions so far, more detail, soundstage but mids don't sound natural at modest levels, bass a tad weak overall. I was thinking "is this unit defective"? Is it a fake? (bought from HiFiGo). So far, I think my Aiyima A08 beats it no problem. My previous Audiolab 6000A beat the A08, but not as easy as the A08 beating the PA5. Not what I was expecting at all, I had much higher expectations. Will let it burn in overnight (just in case : ) and play around with it more tomorrow. Further testing, will post my further impressions soon.

Of course, this is purely subjective, my room, my speakers...etc..

Source: Orchard Audio PecanPi Tidal (connected XLR to TRS)

I'd double check your XLR/TRS cables are both wired correctly.

EDIT - and where are you controlling the volume? On the amp, or on the streamer?