UpTone LPS-1 Linear Power Supply Review and Measurements

[amirm]

Does the LPS-1 have any real world benefits , leaving behind this particular leakage issue?

Let me test it with the Schiit Modi 2 DAC tomorrow and see if there is any news on that front.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Shipping weight and cost, need to meet product price point for maximum sales.

edit
Sorry misread thought you meant SMPS v linear supply

It will only add benefit if the device its powering has inadequate PSU regulation and filtering. However if thats a real problem for you you need to buy a different DAC. A very quiet PSU if required can be realised quite cheaply, you dont need to spend $400.

The logic of the product totally eludes me. Why would you spend $400 on a psu that (allegedly) improves your inadequate dac. Sell your inadequate DAC, add the $400 and buy a decent DAC!

Well none of the customers think that way. I think that way myself as I know how good a $400 DAC can be. I am surprised by how many people report adding this to DACs that cost that much or not much more. Though of course some are adding it to rather expensive DACs. I wouldn't even think adding this to a $400 DAC would make any sense. Some people are now convinced the USB connection is so stricken even cheap DACs are dramatically improved by something like this. In their mind a naked $800 DAC stands no chance against a $400 DAC with a USB cleaner. Seems bonkers to me.

 

[Thomas savage]

This is all starting to look about as necessary as bottled water, except some live in areas where you really should not drink the tap water but DAC's unlike the mains water are easily changed so best do that rather than buy stuff to fix it.. stuff that infact might actually do more harm than good.

I have to say, if I was a audio engineer making top dollar DAC's , the cost no object variety ( or even just damn good ones) I'd be insulted to be told some guys think my best design can be improved by sticking a $300 widget in front of the USB port, if it did turn out to be necessary I think I'd consider a career change lol .

What do the guys at DCS or TAD labs or Berkeley etc think about being told their best work needs these kind of extras to be any good? Or even just that it's so simple to make their products sound better?

You have got to be either fairly arrogant, drunk on your own kool aid or a total genius .

Just what I think mind you so take with a pinch of salt.

 

[Jinjuku]

I've asked, ad-nauseum, for a list of DACs that Alex thinks this makes a difference on.

On the other hand speaking with Emotiva, Chord, Benchmark so far all of them disagree about adding such a device.

 

[amirm]

So, here is a test of UpTone ISO Regen and LPS-1, this time comparing the $10 MeanWell Power supply which comes with LPS-1, compared to the "audiophile" switchmode supply that iPower sells for 5X the money:

The iFi is in yellow. Notice all the mains harmonics that go on and on. It is by far the worst power supply I have tested.

Even sadder news is the fact that LPS-1 does nothing to reduce the impact of this supply as far as AC leakage. What comes into LPS-1, goes out of it in this regard.

I really, really like to see some data from UpTone on what they tested that led them to believe that AC mains leakage is eliminated through the LPS-1. Surely they plugged in a high-leakage switchmode supply into it and measured a reduction. No?

 

[amirm]

As promised, here is how the Schiit Modi 2 DAC does with and without combo of ISO Regen+LPS-1+iFi iPower. As most of you know, the Modi 2 DAC has very poorly implemented power and is highly sensitive to how clean its USB power is. It is a DAC to be avoided but does make a good case of measuring quality of USB power in an indirect way.

BTW, on my laptop I cannot get ASIO working with Modi 2 so these are with DirectShow interface so noise floor is higher than it would be. It does not impact the testing here though.

We see a dramatic improvement/elimination of all the sidebands on our main tone at 12 Khz. So if Uptone wanted a marketing poster child, the Schiit Modi 2 is it.

As before however, AC leakage is there and is increased compared to naked/native USB out of my laptop feeding the Schiit Modi 2.

All of this we could have predicted without even testing. That is, only lousy, poorly implemented DACs need such help. That money instead should be put toward the many DACs which have good post regulators for USB bus and are of no need of such tweaks.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

This is all starting to look about as necessary as bottled water, except some live in areas where you really should not drink the tap water but DAC's unlike the mains water are easily changed so best do that rather than buy stuff to fix it.. stuff that infact might actually do more harm than good.

I have to say, if I was a audio engineer making top dollar DAC's , the cost no object variety ( or even just damn good ones) I'd be insulted to be told some guys think my best design can be improved by sticking a $300 widget in front of the USB port, if it did turn out to be necessary I think I'd consider a career change lol .

What do the guys at DCS or TAD labs or Berkeley etc think about being told their best work needs these kind of extras to be any good? Or even just that it's so simple to make their products sound better?

You have got to be either fairly arrogant, drunk on your own kool aid or a total genius .

Just what I think mind you so take with a pinch of salt.

Excellent points. It is comparable to a megabuck amp or preamp needing a different aftermarket power cord than what is supplied for a supposedly awesome performance improvement. Placebo and expectation bias can work marketing wonders, even when there is a return privilege.

As we have seen from Entreq, Regen, etc. introducing a bit of extra noise and distortion to cause a small sonic difference can convince legions of audiophiles that worse is better. Yet, most of those audiophiles, trusting only their ears in sighted comparisons, go ballistic about objective measurements and what they reveal.

 

[pinkupanda]

OMG! This one too. I thought at least this one was worth the shot with all the isolation from mains, breaking ground loop, etc etc. It did make it to my wishlist as well but....

Honestly I have to ask why would a company spend time, energy and effort to make a product that doesn't improve audio ?

 

[pinkupanda]

JohnSwenson take on LPS-1 at CA:

"I have built a power supply leakage tester, again a single number is not nearly as useful as a leakage VS frequency graph. When I put the LPS-1 on the tester it shows a flat line right at the absolute floor of the tester.



Alex has a policy of not showing measurements of his products VS named products of other companies so I will not say how that compares to other specific supplies. I can say that nothing else I measured comes close.



I don't have a good way right now to calibrate these graphs to come up exactly what those leakage currents are, but I CAN say the floor of the tester is about 500,000 times lower than the maximum leakage I measured, the LPS-1 is going to be less than that."


https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...and-microrendu/?do=findComment&comment=706929

 

[amirm]

JohnSwenson take on LPS-1 at CA:
"I have built a power supply leakage tester, again a single number is not nearly as useful as a leakage VS frequency graph. When I put the LPS-1 on the tester it shows a flat line right at the absolute floor of the tester.

Alex has a policy of not showing measurements of his products VS named products of other companies so I will not say how that compares to other specific supplies. I can say that nothing else I measured comes close.

I don't have a good way right now to calibrate these graphs to come up exactly what those leakage currents are, but I CAN say the floor of the tester is about 500,000 times lower than the maximum leakage I measured, the LPS-1 is going to be less than that."

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...and-microrendu/?do=findComment&comment=706929

Since the first day I have measured their products, they have talked about internal measurements they have done but none ever comes out.

That aside until I see his measurement methodology, it is hard to accept what he says at face value. They could have for example floated his devices in which case AC leakage from the source supply would go away.

On the positive front, I very much agree with his starting sentence and hence the reason you see frequency response graphs rather than any single value.

 

[amirm]

OMG! This one too. I thought at least this one was worth the shot with all the isolation from mains, breaking ground loop, etc etc. It did make it to my wishlist as well but....

I must say, it surprised me too given how much they have talked about LPS-1 providing this isolation.

Honestly I have to ask why would a company spend time, energy and effort to make a product that doesn't improve audio ?

I think they/Alex firmly believe it improves audio by doing subjective listening and believing in improvements they think they hear. It is absurdly easy to go there. Use the presumption that power/USB is cleaner and you automatically hear more detail, less haze, etc. The only way to know if this is really happening is to do so without knowledge of the device being in loop or not. I don't believe they have ever done a blind test.

Which would be fine if they just said that. They simply need to get rid of everything they say technically as the reason for the device improving audio. It is those technical details that are not holding water.

The moment they talk about measureable electrical characteristics, we can quantify them.

Their entire marketing campaign relies on technical arguments however so they are caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

[amirm]

I love to know now, with full knowledge that this device provides no isolation or improvement in the DAC output, whether the current owners have second thought about improvements they think they are hearing.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I must say, it surprised me too given how much they have talked about LPS-1 providing this isolation.


I think they/Alex firmly believe it improves audio by doing subjective listening and believing in improvements they think they hear. It is absurdly easy to go there. Use the presumption that power/USB is cleaner and you automatically hear more detail, less haze, etc. The only way to know if this is really happening is to do so without knowledge of the device being in loop or not. I don't believe they have ever done a blind test.

Which would be fine if they just said that. They simply need to get rid of everything they say technically as the reason for the device improving audio. It is those technical details that are not holding water.

The moment they talk about measureable electrical characteristics, we can quantify them.

Their entire marketing campaign relies on technical arguments however so they are caught between a rock and a hard place.

You mean like the farmer with a box full of dirt approach. I don't know technical stuff or how it works. I just know it sounds good. Buy my box and see if you don't hear it sound better?

 

[Blumlein 88]

I love to know now, with full knowledge that this device provides no isolation or improvement in the DAC output, whether the current owners have second thought about improvements they think they are hearing.

I just finished reading a post where the person has a couple of USB cleaners in line, and the older Regen. He is trying out a new USB cable. Discusses how having friends over they evaluated the difference in the cables. Says he is considering using this new wonder USB cable as the last link between Regen and DAC as so far it is between an Intona and Amber Regen. He BTW is waiting on his ISO Regen to arrive.

So how do you square this idea the Regen reduces and cleans up and fixes USB problems while also discussing fairly obvious differences in USB cables that sit on the wrong side of the Regen, and decide it works so well, you order the new version?

I suppose you can say the resolution post Regen is so improved you now hear USB cable differences more clearly even upstream. Makes no sense technically, but the customers aren't technical people. It is easy to picture in their mind. So now a better Regen will make that even clearer requiring even higher quality USB cables which now will be audible.

That is why I think your testing the unit and the LPS will simply sell more units of both the LPS and more expensive supplies. They'll both wonder how much better than what they have already heard it could be with even cleaner supplies, and be willing to pay for it more than before. Maybe purchase the BOTW if nothing else.

I am telling you, if Alex can swallow his ego a bit, he can use your measurements for John to whip up a superior power supply, acknowledge your assistance and make more money than ever off the deal. These people will trust their ears (yes more than ever even though they didn't hear these problems you measured) and trust science to justify getting deeper into the rabbit hole.

BTW, saw somewhere yesterday that the Intona units use the Meanwell smps internally. Thought that was interesting.

 

[pinkupanda]

well, you will have to give Alex a lot of credit for selling something that doesn't exist

 

[pinkupanda]

I suppose you can say the resolution post Regen is so improved you now hear USB cable differences more clearly even upstream. Makes no sense technically, but the customers aren't technical people. It is easy to picture in their mind. So now a better Regen will make that even clearer requiring even higher quality USB cables which now will be audible.

Rather than cleaning USB signals, I wish there were more "human" regen to clean this world.

I am telling you, if Alex can swallow his ego a bit, he can use your measurements for John to whip up a superior power supply, acknowledge your assistance and make more money than ever off the deal.

I am sure Alex is using Amir's measurement at heart. He is simply not admitting in public - that's his ego and won't give up.

 

[pinkupanda]

I love to know now, with full knowledge that this device provides no isolation or improvement in the DAC output, whether the current owners have second thought about improvements they think they are hearing.

No members over at CA has any 2nd thought on Uptone products.

 

[amirm]

No members over at CA has any 2nd thought on Uptone products.

Well, the people who loaned me the equipment do.

Have they seen the measurements in this thread? Some of them dismissed the Iso Regen results as they were using LPS-1.

 

[amirm]

Since the LPS-1 is supposed to be a universal power supply, not just something to power ISO Regen's, it would be nice to see the measured results of the supply itself. All of the measurement results Daitron provides for their supply would be a good start.

There are no standards for measuring power supplies. Results only make sense if they are on the same workbench/test. So nothing I produce can be compared with Daitron specs.

I will ponder if it makes sense to do power supply measurements as it is not easily done by itself.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Well the classified section does have Uptone products for sale. Not uncommon that they aren't very old. Someone has purchased them and found them ineffective. Alex has said he has gotten some phone calls about cancelled orders or people questioning these measurements. I am sure quite a few more that don't call or comment are looking at this.