3e Audio TPA3255 Amplifier Kit 480-1-29A Review

[staticV3]

Hi!

@daniboun how difficult do you think it would be to replace the standard TPA3255 on the Wiim amp by the 3e Audio one? It may be a naive question but I honestly have zero experience with electronics.

Thanks!

Near impossible.

 

[MCH]

Hi!

@daniboun how difficult do you think it would be to replace the standard TPA3255 on the Wiim amp by the 3e Audio one? It may be a naive question but I honestly have zero experience with electronics.

Thanks!

It is probably feasible to identify the DAC output stage and tap the outputs to an external amp (in a different box, obviously). I wouldn't do it myself nor recommend anyone without experience, but feasible, I guess it is. Question is if something else would stop working as a result.

 

[transformer-coupled]

Thanks to Audiophonics france, Brazales Mecanizados precission CNC company in Madrid , Spain and my friend Javier technician working for gob here in something related with high precission solar energy 24/7 systems, we have done this dual mono, linear power supply free from SMPS high freq dirtiness, Toroidy polish totally silent transformers double transformers 300va single voltaje, finally voltaje was higher than ordered, but its still on range, dual mono 3e PFFB power balanced amp with Naim/Exposure style bananas made in germany 1000v ready and neutrik xlr screw internal conections, all fastons and what we call here "clema" no soldering at all. internal speaker cable from Inakustik made in germany and other are default or normal fire retardtant. It works its silent!! Very clean with ATC acording my best friend Javier.

 

[daniboun]

Thanks to Audiophonics france, Brazales Mecanizados precission CNC company in Madrid , Spain and my friend Javier technician working for gob here in something related with high precission solar energy 24/7 systems, we have done this dual mono, linear power supply free from SMPS high freq dirtiness, Toroidy polish totally silent transformers double transformers 300va single voltaje, finally voltaje was higher than ordered, but its still on range, dual mono 3e PFFB power balanced amp with Naim/Exposure style bananas made in germany 1000v ready and neutrik xlr screw internal conections, all fastons and what we call here "clema" no soldering at all. internal speaker cable from Inakustik made in germany and other are default or normal fire retardtant. It works its silent!! Very clean with ATC acording my best friend Javier. View attachment 351876View attachment 351877
View attachment 351875

Nice work. I used the same "eco case" from Hifi2000. They do the job for a fair price )
Any measurements to check how noiseless could be those linear PSUs ?
PS : you should add a DC+EMI filter between AC mains and transformer this is important for linear PSUs

 

[cavedriver]

So wouldn't the cost here potentially become dominated by the power supply? A Hypex 252MP amp for 8 channels is $1600 at Buckeye. Similar power and THD, no? The Mornsun power supplies are $140 online right now, and each only powers two channels (or just one without active cooling?), so 4x140+8x90+parts, perhaps $1400 all in plus assembly. Saving some on the power supplies maybe gets it down to $1200, so not much better than Hypex. What am I missing?

 

[daniboun]

So wouldn't the cost here potentially become dominated by the power supply? A Hypex 252MP amp for 8 channels is $1600 at Buckeye. Similar power and THD, no? The Mornsun power supplies are $140 online right now, and each only powers two channels (or just one without active cooling?), so 4x140+8x90+parts, perhaps $1400 all in plus assembly. Saving some on the power supplies maybe gets it down to $1200, so not much better than Hypex. What am I missing?

€99 for the Morsun....

MORNSUN LOF550-20B48 SMPS Switching Mode Power Supply Module 550W 48V 11A PFC - Audiophonics

This SMPS LOF550-20B48 switched-mode power supply delivers 48V and 11A for 550W of power. It incorporates a PFC (Power Factor Correction) ensuring 94% efficiency.

www.audiophonics.fr

 

[sarieri]

So wouldn't the cost here potentially become dominated by the power supply? A Hypex 252MP amp for 8 channels is $1600 at Buckeye. Similar power and THD, no? The Mornsun power supplies are $140 online right now, and each only powers two channels (or just one without active cooling?), so 4x140+8x90+parts, perhaps $1400 all in plus assembly. Saving some on the power supplies maybe gets it down to $1200, so not much better than Hypex. What am I missing?

You are missing that these morsun SMPS can run CONTINUOUSLY around 300w without active cooling. Hypex can only run continuously at 50W according to their datasheet. 8x50w=400W.

 

[cavedriver]

You are missing that these morsun SMPS can run CONTINUOUSLY around 300w without active cooling. Hypex can only run continuously at 50W according to their datasheet. 8x50w=400W.

hmm, I wonder what happens to the Hypex when pushed to more than that for a couple hours? I might have pushed my 502MP to 100 W continuous but very unlikely it was for more than 20 minutes. I'll have to go back and read the Hypex reviews. Still, if the peak power output is used to set the number of Mornsun power supplies you still end in the higher cost case with continuous power capability home users are unlikely to ever engage. If we cut the number of PSs in half then yes, back to the ~$1200 cost. Pro audio benefit would be different I suppose.

 

[morillon]

Post in thread 'WiiM Amp Streaming Amplifier Review' https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...streaming-amplifier-review.52372/post-1895240


?????

 

[sarieri]

hmm, I wonder what happens to the Hypex when pushed to more than that for a couple hours? I might have pushed my 502MP to 100 W continuous but very unlikely it was for more than 20 minutes. I'll have to go back and read the Hypex reviews. Still, if the peak power output is used to set the number of Mornsun power supplies you still end in the higher cost case with continuous power capability home users are unlikely to ever engage. If we cut the number of PSs in half then yes, back to the ~$1200 cost. Pro audio benefit would be different I suppose.

Hours? Peak power is measured within fraction of a second. I very much doubt you ever pushed your amp to 100W unless you are driving a sub.

If you are using the peak power to figure out the price of an SMPS, you are comparing apples and pears. A SMPS with ability to support 2kw of peak power won’t cost more than $300.

 

[daniboun]

Post in thread 'WiiM Amp Streaming Amplifier Review' https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...streaming-amplifier-review.52372/post-1895240
?????

Well, I have the feeling that their R&D is not good) Whether it is 3E Audio, Sylph Audio, Aiyima, Fosi, XRK.... no one has encountered this problem relating to pop noise.... Wiim should therefore worry.

 

[morillon]

Well, I have the feeling that their R&D is not good) Whether it is 3E Audio, Sylph Audio, Aiyima, Fosi, XRK.... no one has encountered this problem relating to pop noise.... Wiim should therefore worry.

:-(

 

[MCH]

I don't know if it is related, but amir measured a quite strong (10mV) power off spike in the 3e stereo version (for reference, 5 times more than the fosi za3 and 100 times than Benchmark AHB2, the two last power amps measured).

In which circumstances would one have to reset the chip? i guess never in a "module in a box" kind of thing, but the wiim is probably way more complex than that. Has anyone tried to reset this module and checked for pop noises? do we know it is silent? I fully understand wiim's decision, nobody wants these noises even if occurring seldomly.

 

[daniboun]

I don't know if it is related, but amir measured a quite strong (10mV) power off spike in the 3e stereo version (for reference, 5 times more than the fosi za3 and 100 times than Benchmark AHB2, the two last power amps measured).

In which circumstances would one have to reset the chip? i guess never in a "module in a box" kind of thing, but the wiim is probably way more complex than that. Has anyone tried to reset this module and checked for pop noises? do we know it is silent? I fully understand wiim's decision, nobody wants these noises even if occurring seldomly.

What is the problem ? Pop OFF is almost inaudible for most of us...
So if I understand Wiim's motivations, it is better to have a great Pop OFF at the expense of implementing PFFB? Strange decision....

 

[cavedriver]

Hours? Peak power is measured within fraction of a second. I very much doubt you ever pushed your amp to 100W unless you are driving a sub.

If you are using the peak power to figure out the price of an SMPS, you are comparing apples and pears. A SMPS with ability to support 2kw of peak power won’t cost more than $300.

Ok, so $300 + $720+ $100 (parts) = $1120, say $1200 as I said (pre-built like the Hypex might bump it up a minimum of another one to two hundred). Note those are generally actively cooled power supplies, so fan noise that of course could be hidden or upgraded to be quieter (Noctua). But don't tell me this is a significantly superior solution to the Hypex, because as you so rightly pointed out most home audio does not run near max power output most of the time. It's at best simply a ~25% savings over current solutions. This amp could be a good replacement for the ubiquitous Crown amps and things like that that people use for powering subs though. Seems like a great application.

 

[MCH]

Well, I have the feeling that their R&D is not good) Whether it is 3E Audio, Sylph Audio, Aiyima, Fosi, XRK.... no one has encountered this problem relating to pop noise.... Wiim should therefore worry.

@daniboun Do you have evidence that there is no pop on the amps you mention when the chip is reset? it should be easy to check, the reset pin is exposed in the 3E audio board.

 

[cavedriver]

Hours? Peak power is measured within fraction of a second. I very much doubt you ever pushed your amp to 100W unless you are driving a sub.

If you are using the peak power to figure out the price of an SMPS, you are comparing apples and pears. A SMPS with ability to support 2kw of peak power won’t cost more than $300.

The "how much power are people using/how loud are they really listening" discussion has been endlessly brought up. I simply put it out there as a worst case and I knew it was going to be considered "implausible" so I don't appreciate the condescending tone. But just for the fun of it I drove my vintage Snell C/V speakers with my Hypex 502MP with a watt meter on the power inlet. I tested them playing Azalea Banks' "212", a bass-heavy hip hop song. The Snell's were measured by Atkinson at a ~87 dB/W/m efficiency. At levels I considered the maximum level I might be willing to drive the speakers before fearing I was damaging them (well beyond safe or even tolerable listening volumes), I was only at about 50 watts continuous from the meter. Assuming no losses in the amp that's about 104 dB continuous. One more doubling in average input power would get me to 107 dB SPL levels (all averages here, not real of course). Who knows if I would roast one of the Snell's drivers at this volume although their 90's vintage specs claim "200 watt power handling". Fwiw, they were showing no signs of stress at those volume but it was only ~3 minutes, and the amp's case was of course not even warm to the touch (VTV with just raw Hypex card in a case, never does get warm really). So would I ever run this amp at 100 watts continuous? Unsurprisingly no with these speakers in this house, but if I had had these speakers in college I definitely would have run them at 50 W continuous for some house parties, haha.

 

[daniboun]

The "how much power are people using/how loud are they really listening" discussion has been endlessly brought up. I simply put it out there as a worst case and I knew it was going to be considered "implausible" so I don't appreciate the condescending tone. But just for the fun of it I drove my vintage Snell C/V speakers with my Hypex 502MP with a watt meter on the power inlet. I tested them playing Azalea Banks' "212", a bass-heavy hip hop song. The Snell's were measured by Atkinson at a ~87 dB/W/m efficiency. At levels I considered the maximum level I might be willing to drive the speakers before fearing I was damaging them (well beyond safe or even tolerable listening volumes), I was only at about 50 watts continuous from the meter. Assuming no losses in the amp that's about 104 dB continuous. One more doubling in average input power would get me to 107 dB SPL levels (all averages here, not real of course). Who knows if I would roast one of the Snell's drivers at this volume although their 90's vintage specs claim "200 watt power handling". Fwiw, they were showing no signs of stress at those volume but it was only ~3 minutes, and the amp's case was of course not even warm to the touch (VTV with just raw Hypex card in a case, never does get warm really). So would I ever run this amp at 100 watts continuous? Unsurprisingly no with these speakers in this house, but if I had had these speakers in college I definitely would have run them at 50 W continuous for some house parties, haha.

I really like this video. I share again
This will help you to understand how loud is 1W with a 87db speaker for instance

 

[cavedriver]

I really like this video. I share again
This will help you to understand how loud is 1W with a 87db speaker for instance

what exactly do you think was inaccurate about my statement? That guy clearly has something to sell and I do not trust much of his content. For starters, he calls the room well damped, yet it's visibly not. Blank hard walls, a large hard surface fireplace, and a hardwood floor with a partial coverage low nap carpet in a room that looks like it's only about 11 feet wide. We can't see the whole room but if we assume similar treatment behind the cameras it's at best about 10% coverage. Then he chooses music with very little low bass content (almost none) and reports on the watts at one speaker using a sound meter with unreported weighting. If his meter is using A metering it will report a higher sound output for the same power draw vs C or Z weighting. This conversation is about power supply loading at volumes I would never listen to classical music at. Basically house party levels because I'm thinking of worst case loading. Also, again, significantly bigger rooms.

 

[rsqt]

You are right. A bassdrum played with 1W with a 87dB speaker is really not loud. The ears freq. response is down about 10-15dB in that range. In a distance of about 4m you loose about 12dB. That means about 60-65dB in the bass range at the listening place.