Measurements of Sonore microRendu Streamer

[Mivera]

Amir has a super stream too!
It is just so difficult to know who to brown nose first.
Keith.

He with the brownest nose at the end of the day, always walks away a winner in the audio industry. I suppose that's why I'm so broke.

 

[ceedee]

[...] can your wife and kids tell the difference between the Rendu and your magic server in a blinded fashion? I bet not.

Alas, the strongest and most valued piece of audiophile evidence, "my wife even heard the difference from the other room," is of little value in this forum.

Also, I don't think there's been any evidence posted here that would suggest anyone could tell the difference between the Rendu and "whatever" in a blind test.

 

[Mivera]

Alas, the strongest and most valued piece of audiophile evidence, "my wife even heard the difference from the other room," is of little value in this forum.

Also, I don't think there's been any evidence posted here that would suggest anyone could tell the difference between the Rendu and "whatever" in a blind test.

That's exactly how I judge my products. If my wife can notice from the kitchen that an improvement has been made, it's a winner. I would be a fool to argue with my wife

 

[bibo01]

It will take me playing with the machine for a bit to learn which tests give the most meaningful results. After I obtain a battery of test results, I can see if Amir can duplicate. However his older machine doesn't have the ability to do some of the critical, meaningful tests that the aPX-555 can do with the new DSIO module.

Perhaps also the PDM module can be useful to you

 

[Mivera]

Perhaps also the PDM module can be useful to you

I think the DSIO module combined with the latest advanced master clock that just came out last August will do what I need to do.

http://www.ap.com/analyzers-accessories/interfaces-modules/apx-advanced-master-clock-module/

 

[bibo01]

I think the DSIO module combined with the latest advanced master clock that just came out last August will do what I need to do.

...

With the PDM module you can measure DSD ...it seems

 

[krabapple]

Well possibly it does, if not then this hole thread is moot as what we are arguing about what happens below traditional thresholds.

gee, d'ya think?

('hole' thread, yeah, that works too)

 

[Thomas savage]

gee, d'ya think?

('hole' thread, yeah, that works too)

Was pun on black hole!

 

[krabapple]

Just because

It's been shown over and over again that many things audible cannot be measured. Of course there are some that are not willing to believe this and just feel our mind is playing tricks on us. My opinion is that the mind is much more powerful than these few individuals give it credit for, and we should trust ourselves when we listen. YMMV

Listener biases can be 'measured' (detected) very readily. Have you managed to rule them out before you've decided to 'trust yourself'?

 

[dallasjustice]

IFI/AMR says you have a ground loop in your test measurement.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...ower-much-ado-about-nothing-28982/#post555510

Synopsis:
Care and attention to setup the optimal environment is needed to rule out spurious noise sources. Even the expensive AP does not have FULL galvanic-isolation and is hampered by multiple earth connections.

One must address these before commencing any sort of precise noise measurements.

 

[cjf]

 

[firedog]

This thread is ridiculous.
Sorry ASR guys, but Amir has not shown himself to be objective. I think his rush to publish his original incorrect measurements and speculate on their meaning indicate that he is more interested in "disproving" the claims made for the microRendu than he is in proper science. If he was truly objective, he would have waited and tried to figure out the mistake he made - b/c he knew his original results made no sense - BEFORE publishing, not after.

And in spite of what you several of you seem to claim, his commercial interests in the audio world make his position no better than others you've decided are tainted by commercial interests. Also no worse, by the way.

In the end, Amir's measurements are one set done by one individual. They may or may not be correct. Yet many of you immediately jump on them as "truth" and trash both the microRendu and the iFi iPower based only on them. Is that scientific, as many of you claim to be? I think not, even by the definition of the scientific method I learned about as a child. I seem to remember that in science, experimental results need to be repeatable in order to be accepted. I think the rapid and energetic acceptance of Amir's unverified results shows more about the prejudices of many posters here than anything else.

There have been serious doubts expressed about Amir's competency to even take correct measurements of what he is trying to measure. iFi is about to post it's own measurements, and an explanation of of why Amir's are incorrect. I understand that an independent third party who is a known expert in measurement of audio equipment is also being brought in to do measurements (although I don't know for sure this will happen). You can reject their measurements and reports once you read them, if you feel they are somehow incompetent or tainted. That's fine. But how about waiting before drawing conclusions. That would be "Audio Science", not what is going on here.

 

[Purité Audio]

Bring on Ifi's measurements where are they published, they must have measured the product to make the claims for their product which are clearly stated on their website.
Either Amir has cocked up or the Ifi power supply is poor, athird 'independent ' measurement suite would be ideal.
Keith.

 

[Geardaddy]

Bring on Ifi's measurements where are they published, they must have measured the product to make the claims for their product which are clearly stated on their website.
Either Amir has cocked up or the Ifi power supply is poor, athird 'independent ' measurement suite would be ideal.
Keith.

Where is your money on that one? At one of the emperors has no clothes....

 

[Purité Audio]

The thread on CA showcased skilful use of cut and paste but why not just publish their own measurements showing the efficacy of the device?
Keith.

 

[dallasjustice]

I'm still waiting on the Regen measurements.

It seems like the popularity of these "hot" products is very short; Hit n' Run digital is the new thing for the elite ears.

Amir has done many folks a great service until demonstrated otherwise.

 

[Purité Audio]

Where is your money on that one? At one of the emperors has no clothes....

I couldn't find the 'audiophile fuse' on the Ifi site, is it still available?
Keith

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

This thread is ridiculous.
Sorry ASR guys, but Amir has not shown himself to be objective. I think his rush to publish his original incorrect measurements and speculate on their meaning indicate that he is more interested in "disproving" the claims made for the microRendu than he is in proper science. If he was truly objective, he would have waited and tried to figure out the mistake he made - b/c he knew his original results made no sense - BEFORE publishing, not after.

And in spite of what you several of you seem to claim, his commercial interests in the audio world make his position no better than others you've decided are tainted by commercial interests. Also no worse, by the way.

In the end, Amir's measurements are one set done by one individual. They may or may not be correct. Yet many of you immediately jump on them as "truth" and trash both the microRendu and the iFi iPower based only on them. Is that scientific, as many of you claim to be? I think not, even by the definition of the scientific method I learned about as a child. I seem to remember that in science, experimental results need to be repeatable in order to be accepted. I think the rapid and energetic acceptance of Amir's unverified results shows more about the prejudices of many posters here than anything else.

There have been serious doubts expressed about Amir's competency to even take correct measurements of what he is trying to measure. iFi is about to post it's own measurements, and an explanation of of why Amir's are incorrect. I understand that an independent third party who is a known expert in measurement of audio equipment is also being brought in to do measurements (although I don't know for sure this will happen). You can reject their measurements and reports once you read them, if you feel they are somehow incompetent or tainted. That's fine. But how about waiting before drawing conclusions. That would be "Audio Science", not what is going on here.

As I see it, Amir's conclusions are about nothing other than what his measurements said, no more, no less. He has also welcomed other measurements to prove or disprove his. That is called "peer review", and it is done all the time in all branches of science. It is an essential part of science as we know it. But, your naive claim is that this is not science at all.

So, if you are talking about rushes to judgement, I think you first need to look at yourself. If there are measurements that indicate some error by Amir, I am quite sure he will attempt to verify them. If he, based on that, discovers an error on his part, I am quite sure you will see him admit it. But, he and all of us, need to see those alternative measurements, not hand waving.

You need not invent claims about his "commercial interests" tainting his measurements. I see none that could affect his views on this particular device. He "sells" nothing remotely like it. He has no website or no storefront dealership peddling bits and pieces of computer audio setups. So, your claim of commercial taint is baseless.

You have assumed he made errors before there is any concrete evidence of that. You say he should have waited to correct those presumed errors before publishing anything. Yes, he himself discovered one error in his initial measurements, admitted it and corrected those measurements with full explanation.

But, you seem to be in a big hurry to criticize when you have nothing whatsoever other than your own beliefs and no measurements yet from the manufacturers, who you are willing to trust completely based on mere non-evidentiary claims. If they, in fact, do provide them, we can all move forward however it shakes out and see who's bluff or poor methodology is called out. That will be good for all of us. We will all learn from it. But, this current issue of which measurements are right would never have come up if Amir had not published his own measurements in the first place, which you criticize.

 

[firedog]

As I see it, Amir's conclusions are about nothing other than what his measurements said, no more, no less. He has also welcomed other measurements to prove or disprove his. That is called "peer review", and it is done all the time in all branches of science. It is an essential part of science as we know it. But, your naive claim is that this is not science at all.

So, if you are talking about rushes to judgement, I think you first need to look at yourself. If there are measurements that indicate some error by Amir, I am quite sure he will attempt to verify them. If he, based on that, discovers an error on his part, I am quite sure you will see him admit it. But, he and all of us, need to see those alternative measurements, not hand waving.

You need not invent claims about his "commercial interests" tainting his measurements. I see none that could affect his views on this particular device. He "sells" nothing remotely like it. He has no website or no storefront dealership peddling bits and pieces of computer audio setups. So, your claim of commercial taint is baseless.

You have assumed he made errors before there is any concrete evidence of that. You say he should have waited to correct those presumed errors before publishing anything. Yes, he himself discovered one error in his initial measurements, admitted it and corrected those measurements with full explanation.

But, you seem to be in a big hurry to criticize when you have nothing whatsoever other than your own beliefs and no measurements yet from the manufacturers, who you are willing to trust completely based on mere non-evidentiary claims. If they, in fact, do provide them, we can all move forward however it shakes out and see who's bluff or poor methodology is called out. That will be good for all of us. We will all learn from it. But, this current issue of which measurements are right would never have come up if Amir had not published his own measurements in the first place, which you criticize.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth.
Errors? I didn't have to assume anything. He provided his own evidence of his initial correct measurements, to his credit. From my POV, publishing his initial mistake and criticizing a product when he himself wrote that his measurement didn't make sense - shows a rush to judgement and lack of objectivity. I'm not critical of him publishing measurements, I'm critical of him publishing measurements which even he suspected were incorrect.
"My own beliefs" - don't have any on this topic. If Amir's measurements are confirmed by others, I'll accept them.

 

[Purité Audio]

Just nice to see some measurements of kit, when the norm is subjective claptrap that has no meaning or value whatsoever.
Keith.