Mechano23 Open-source DIY Speaker Review

[Bruce Morgen]

Almost every DIY I've embarked on costs more if my time was to take into consideration.

DIY makes no sense unless you actually enjoy the DIY process and/or if there's no other way to get the item you want.

 

[bunkbail]

I'll let @XMechanik give his rationale, but I'll point out that the driver you referenced is not an "aluminum counterpart" to the SB13PFCR25-4. Its a completely different driver: 15cm vs 13cm, 30mm VC vs 25mm, and 2X-3X higher price, among other distinctions.

Sure, but the diameter is the same and in many ways the better driver for such concept. I just feel like these speakers are being held back by the woofer.

 

[AudioJester]

That's the misnomer, you don't save a heap of money, rarely do DIY save a heap of money.

Cost of materials, the tools and the time? And look at this speaker compared to a manufactured product, certainly not a head turner. Almost every DIY I've embarked on costs more if my time was to take into consideration.

My old diy lx521 setup cost me about AU$7k, obviously not including my time. Built it with my sons which is priceless. Reading the axpona thread a new turnkey set up is close to US$20k!

DIY may not be worthwhile to you, but we are all different...

This Mechano23 looks like a brilliant design and a fun project for those inclined. Otherwise, yyes, loads of off the shelf options, the Ascend is class.

 

[TonyJZX]

DIY makes no sense unless you actually enjoy the DIY process and/or if there's no other way to get the item you want.

i feel like DIY would barely exist if the trad manufacturers were producing identically charting products for a similar price... let's just say Mechano23's BOM + profit... eg. 25% (being generous)

but we arent there?

these are $300 usd?

and so why arent we seeing comparable finished products at the $500 mark?

 

[Bogda89]

i feel like DIY would barely exist if the trad manufacturers were producing identically charting products for a similar price... let's just say Mechano23's BOM + profit... eg. 25% (being generous)

but we arent there?

these are $300 usd?

and so why arent we seeing comparable finished products at the $500 mark?

bacause speaker business and electronics in general has a mark up 10 to one. if parts are 300$ product is 3000$.

its not always that simple to calculate and there is differences betwen products and market strategies but this is close enough. economy of scale works different but lets say for smaller bathes if this parts are 300$ they would be under 100$, for big serial production from big brands this will be fraction of the cost.

mathematics is simple, if product cost 1000$ after dealer, and distributor in the best case scenario you get 1/3 of msrp, so as a manufacturer you get less than 350$. and standard usiness model is 5 to 1, if you get 350, cost to produce should be 70$. and the rest goes on other expenses and profit.

in my opinion you get good value for money only in 2 cases. either you get something from big brends that sell hundreeds of thousands and can bring cost down by the economy of scale and this works ok for affordable sruff.

or second option to buy from small manufacturers who care about their products, affordable price for what they offer and sell direct from their website without dealer, espaecially if we talk about higher end audio

 

[ta240]

.... Take a few hours out of your week that you'd be watching TV , listening to music or on forums researching audio or other gear(do you factor the research time into the cost of your equipment purchases?) and you have something tangible .....

I so often see the "my time is worth more than that" argument against DIY but I wonder if those same people measure the value of their time in all things, like you mention, or just when they want to say something isn't worth while.

If someone wants to say that they don't enjoy DIY so they would rather buy completed items and spend their leisure time on other activities, that makes perfect sense. But somehow indicating that every moment of their time is measured and optimized for the most valuable outcome, so they can't spend it on something like this, seems like a stretch.

 

[TonyJZX]

well there's people who like hifi but just want to hit the i/o button and let things go

they dont want to know whats in a speaker, whats in an amp etc. - i get that

then there's the people here who may accept the challenging aesthetics and want to know some of the ins and outs

i also would question how these bunch of parts, which are not impressive, ends up as a $300 speaker as DIY but would end up as a $1,500 speaker finished... all the while being made in china????

is there big time c-suite hoovering up the difference?

i get local shops have huge markups but this is... stretching things

 

[ta240]

..... who may accept the challenging aesthetics ....

I feel pretty confident that if I can apply a veneer to a speaker then anybody can. And this one is perfect for it because it has squared edges.
All I've ever used is a handheld circular saw with a straight edge clamped to the plywood and a handheld router with a circle jig. Sure, I've had to recut pieces and measure 3 or 4 times before cutting...

 

[wwenze]

I so often see the "my time is worth more than that" argument against DIY but I wonder if those same people measure the value of their time in all things, like you mention, or just when they want to say something isn't worth while.

If someone wants to say that they don't enjoy DIY so they would rather buy completed items and spend their leisure time on other activities, that makes perfect sense. But somehow indicating that every moment of their time is measured and optimized for the most valuable outcome, so they can't spend it on something like this, seems like a stretch.

I measure it against whether OT-ing for the same duration can buy me the product.

 

[Laurent]

I own a pair of Scan Speak based diy speakers, with this woofer, glad to see these results. The Scan Speak units really are head and shoulders above anything else.

 

[Sokel]

Does the DIY vs commercial discussion has a place in a review thread (highly technical and super interesting as it went until then)?
Sounds odd and out of place.

 

[CleanSound]

Does the DIY vs commercial discussion has a place in a review thread (highly technical and super interesting as it went until then)?
Sounds odd and out of place.

I will delete, although I believe it's related to it's value.

 

[letspla13]

I will remove mine as well , and apologize if my comments were out of place in this thread .

 

[Rick Sykora]

Nice animations, thanks!. That's the objective summary I was hoping for. Clearly illustrates the differences, which I'd personally characterize as more than negligible, but certainly similar enough that the simpler 2-2-4 crossover is worthy of consideration.

FWIW, if I compare crossover cost using equivalent components (Jantzen CrossCap and Jantzen air coils in both cases) its ~ $25 lower (per speaker) for the 2-2-4 crossover. Also not negligible!

Have to be careful when judging these graphs visually (note to self as well)! Mine was wider than @XMechanik's, but we match when you ensure all else does. From a relative perspective his animation appears to be a fair comparison.

Just to illustrate...

These are screenshots of the same crossover, scaling and graphic dimensions, but without the legend, the lower one is more stretched horizontally and so appears flatter.

Yes, the original crossover is a bit better, but as you found, it comes at a cost. Often a designer will optimize a crossover for more common component values to help lower cost. If you remove that constraint, you can tweak the crossover for better performance at minimal added cost.

 

[Salt]

Have to be careful when judging these graphs visually (note to self as well)! Mine was wider than @XMechanik's, but we match when you ensure all else does. From a relative perspective his animation appears to be a fair comparison.

Just to illustrate...


View attachment 367394



View attachment 367395

These are screenshots of the same crossover, scaling and graphic dimensions, but without the legend, the lower one is more stretched horizontally and so appears flatter.

Yes, the original crossover is a bit better but as you found, it comes at a cost. Often a designer will optimize a crossover for more common component values to help lower cost. If you remove that constraint, you can tweak the crossover for better performance at minimal added cost.

That differences are optical only, but the 7 dB difference from true SPL and 9 dB related to average SPL (should be 6 dB) may indicate slight phase shift between woofer and tweeter.
Not that this would do audible harm at all, but though might be cause of the minor dip in this area.
Nitpicking, agree.

 

[BuddyCasino]

Look at the crossover - it's complicated, with a fair number of big and expensive parts.

Not sure anyone posted this yet, Kimmo Saunisto (Maker of Vituixcad ) designed an alternative, simpler version:

Simulations:

 

[kimmosto]

11 XO components with original data.

 

[XMechanik]

Simulations:

A couple of animations for better comparison (and few remarks: link)

 

[goldark]

I'm not handy at all but would pay a fair upcharge to have someone assemble these for me. Perhaps a business opportunity?

 

[longma]

I'm not handy at all but would pay a fair upcharge to have someone assemble these for me. Perhaps a business opportunity?

Someone in Texas plans to build the speakers?