AV123 / GR Research X-Voce Speaker Review

[DanielT]

There is zero need for this. Several people have shown the issue with simple simulations. You don’t even need to leave your chair to figure out that this is shit without ever building it…

You can wonder why he sells it, if he knows it's crap. I mean he probably has the skills to build a center speaker that is much better than this AV123 / GR Research X-Voce? Given how bad the AV123 / GR Research X-Voce is, it shouldn't be that hard, should it?

 

[defec1]

Could the speaker originally have been tuned in a room with a 90hz null? My guess is that the new crossover may fix things and the floor bounce explanation is just a way to attempt to save face. Time will tell.

 

[amirm]

You can wonder why he sells it, if he knows it's crap. I mean he probably has the skills to build a center speaker that is much better than this AV123 / GR Research X-Voce? Given how bad the AV123 / GR Research X-Voce is, it shouldn't be that hard, should it?

I suspect he has a large inventory of these parts from the original product liquidation so he was not motivated to do something new.

 

[DanielT]

Could the speaker originally have been tuned in a room with a 90hz null? My guess is that the new crossover may fix things and the floor bounce explanation is just a way to attempt to save face. Time will tell.

Hardly. Imagine a commercial speaker manufacturer that would sell and market their speakers by saying that these are tuned in a room with a 90hz null. The majority of potential buyers would then just say,.. huh?

It is not possible to sell such specific speakers, for such specific conditions, to people who also do not know what a 90hz null is.

 

[Futility]

Leaving this here for posterity as that company purged their forum of heretic responses.

I guess he takes us for plebes without knowledge, reason or logic who don't deserve an explanation or fix.

It is this kind of hauty guru messiah attitude that makes me regret having heavily invested in his products.
Now I want to re-measure all the speakers I have to see what other surprises are in stock for me.

 

[Rick Sykora]

Leaving this here for posterity as that company purged their forum of heretic responses.

I guess he takes us for plebes without knowledge, reason or logic who don't deserve an explanation or fix.

It is this kind of hauty guru messiah attitude that makes me regret having heavily invested in his products.
Now I want to re-measure all the speakers I have to see what other surprises are in stock for me.

View attachment 334943View attachment 334943

He really does not seem to understand information technology very well either. He has already "deleted" these posts and an earlier one from his Circle. Or maybe just makes him feel more in control.

In any case, he will find that once something is posted, it is very difficult to eradicate.

 

[DanTheMan]

Leaving this here for posterity as that company purged their forum of heretic responses.

I guess he takes us for plebes without knowledge, reason or logic who don't deserve an explanation or fix.

It is this kind of hauty guru messiah attitude that makes me regret having heavily invested in his products.
Now I want to re-measure all the speakers I have to see what other surprises are in stock for me.

View attachment 335043

These posts all seem to be deleted now, but @amirm has posted more that is pure gold!
nonetheless, some of his speakers measure quite well. This one and the LGK are terrible, but that doesn’t mean they all are. The Encore measure well.

 

[Rick Sykora]

These posts all seem to be deleted now, but @amirm has posted more that is pure gold!
nonetheless, some of his speakers measure quite well. This one and the LGK are terrible, but that doesn’t mean they all are. The Encore measure well.

The XL-S Encore measures decently for a vintage speaker. It is not unique in that respect. Others offer newer designs that are better and are better values. Danny criticizes other speaker designs for compromising quality but often these compromises are known technical ones and have little or no effect on sound quality. However, along with his speakers, Danny preaches that fancy capacitors, solid core wire and tube connectors are superior despite clear lack of technical evidence and sound quality benefits.

So if you consider the choice between a speaker with known technical design compromises and GR designs claiming unproven technical merits, I know which I prefer. Granted Danny may have some decent experience as a speaker designer, but his arcane methods and middling drivers are a far cry from what today’s designers can employ. Given this, he makes claim to mystical qualities in a misguided attempt at competitive differentiation. Worse yet, when confronted with clear technical facts, Danny tries to hide design faults and deflect blame on others. Customers deserve better.

 

[Rick Sykora]

he has been invited down as has Gene Della Salla WITH Audioholics... they just don't want to go. But Chris from Vinyl Attack and Jay of Jay's Iyagi have both been and presented a video response of their visits. I find it rather disappointing they can't get heads together and see what comes out of it for our benefit.

Likely Amir has been disinvited at this stage. Danny is very unhappy with Amir’s posts on the AudioCircle forum. However, GR customers should be thanking Amir and the X-Voce owner. Without the review, unlikely Danny would be expending any effort to improve his own designs.

 

[Steve1138]

Well I hope the X-VOCE is better now as I ordered the kit. am currently using a Linn AV 5120 as centre speaker in active mode

 

[DanTheMan]

Well I hope the X-VOCE is better now as I ordered the kit. am currently using a Linn AV 5120 as centre speaker in active mode

I’d cancel that order before it’s shipped to be 100% honest: not just because it’s a bad design, but because of the lies and insults/condescension that go along with it. Supporting that kind of behavior isn’t something I’d be interested in. I’m absolutely sure you can find a cheaper, better, readymade speaker fairly easy and I’m just as sure you can find DIY ones as well.

 

[DanTheMan]

Any voice of reason or understanding must be removed from the circle. Thus sayeth the dicktater. DAC power cord hearers who can’t distinguish 12dB swings in FR have to keep their Circle Jerk free. That’s not a double entendre

 

[amirm]

The above is what you see. What you don't see is Danny emailing cursing me every day saying I have no idea what I am doing. I keep explaining the problem and he keeps saying I don't know how to read graphs. I have to wonder if he is really that unknowledgeable to think he is right.

 

[DanTheMan]

The above is what you see. What you don't see is Danny emailing cursing me every day saying I have no idea what I am doing. I keep explaining the problem and he keeps saying I don't know how to read graphs. I have to wonder if he is really that unknowledgeable to think he is right.

I used to believe he was pretty knowledgeable, but a true believer and thus not an intentional charlatan. Now I think considerably less of his knowledge and in the face of clear data repeated by several people and most clearly by a Klippel, you know he is dishonest. It is impossible to be a speaker designer for that many years and not be able to understand that all this data is not a fluke, floor bounce, busted cap, polarity reversal, or any other one off excuse he has made. He understands that there is a fundamental problem with the design and he should own up to his lack of proper testing, theoretical understanding and inadequate hearing and make his error right by the people who spent that money to own a slice of his professed guruship.

Oh, and sorry Amir that you have had to be at the receiving end of his abuse. I have too and he was just as obviously wrong then. You can see a similar behavior from his followers now, but they are far less numerous and volatile. I’m hoping that’s a sign that several are taking the red pill. I think that his customers coming here with politeness and reason is also evidence for that.

 

[voodooless]

The man is just incapable of bringing any facts to the table. All he does is deflect by Jon Snowing @amirm and discrediting him and the community.

If he thinks his current speaker is fine, he’s free to ship it to @amirm. Hell, I’m sure we can chip in to buy the current kit and have it retested, just to show that he’s full of it.

As for claims that the latest speaker has a different crossover: from pictures I could find, it looks to be exactly the same with references from this year.. I call bullshit!

 

[defec1]

The XL-S Encore measures decently for a vintage speaker. It is not unique in that respect. Others offer newer designs that are better and are better values. Danny criticizes other speaker designs for compromising quality but often these compromises are known technical ones and have little or no effect on sound quality. However, along with his speakers, Danny preaches that fancy capacitors, solid core wire and tube connectors are superior despite clear lack of technical evidence and sound quality benefits.

So if you consider the choice between a speaker with known technical design compromises and a GR designs claiming unproven technical merits, I know which I prefer. Granted Danny may have some decent experience as a speaker designer, but his arcane methods and middling drivers are a far cry from what today’s designers can employ. Given this, he makes claim to mystical qualities in a misguided attempt at competitive differentiation. Worse yet, when confronted with clear technical facts, Danny tries to hide design faults and deflect blame on others.

What is your definition of vintage as in time range? I just looked up the xl-s and it's measurements while not state of the art, they seem far better than most vintage things that I've seen such as 70-90's stuff.

 

[Futility]

I’m sure we can chip in to buy the current kit and have it retested, just to show that he’s full of it.

While I can only do a basic REW measurement, I do plan on testing the two samples I have in the same environment. I will probably get a "fix kit" if GR allows me to have one. Who knows, though... they might put me on their No-Buy list

If I do get the new X-over (or even the whole kit with drivers), it would be interesting to compare the response of old vs new assemblies. If I make it happen, it'll probably be early next year.

 

[voodooless]

If I do get the new X-over (or even the whole kit with drivers), it would be interesting to compare the response of old vs new assemblies. If I make it happen, it'll probably be early next year.

Does "the new crossover" even exit yet?

 

[Futility]

Does "the new crossover" even exit yet?

I doubt it but owners are encouraged to discreetly call or email the company.

 

[Rick Sykora]

What is your definition of vintage as in time range? I just looked up the xl-s and it's measurements while not state of the art, they seem far better than most vintage things that I've seen such as 70-90's stuff.

There are not a lot of vintage reviews (much less DiY ones) to be found but would consider the HiVi 3.1 to be a fair comparison. For that matter, the Carmody S2000 is also similar. The Zaph SR71 comes to mind as well and he actually bothered to do off-axis measures and post them. There are also some older Bagby and Murphy designs that am confident would be better choices than a X-LS Encore.

I would consider any audio more than 20 years old to be vintage but not looking to split hairs over it. Also, sure you can find older commercial speakers that measure well. However, most of them are not going to be marketing their 20 year old design either. Speaker materials, manufacturing and design tools have advanced significantly in the last 20 years or so. Yes, some may have compromised quality over time too. But looking at a comparable contemporary speaker, it is pretty easy to exceed an X-LS Encore.