ATC SCM19 Bookshelf Speaker Review

[Xyrium]

I confess I was unaware of the smallest ATCs. The SCM7 is LS3/5a-sized and costs roughly ½ of those? Did you compare the SCM7 with the other famous "shoe-box" ( I suppose we can also call them A4-size?) speakers such as the LS3/5a and P3ESR?

Indeed.. .they sure were "cute" if I may! Lol

Unfortunately, I did not have an opportunity to make such a comparison. At the time, I was also in the process of assembling the Zaph ZRTs, in a larger stand mount form. I then moved on to a pair of Focal solo6's and they stayed with me until each one had its amp die.

 

[AudioSceptic]

I'm glad that we are beginning to see speakers come onto the market that are specifically designed to work either against a wall, or you can adjust for wall distance. This is a crucial domestic retirement ignored by so much of the market for to long.

That was Linn's philosophy with their first "wave" of speakers, Isobarik, Sara, and Kan. It's always made a lot of sense to me, especially for the small rooms we tend to have in the UK.

 

[DLxP]

ATC is stuck in the past, as are many things and people Britain...

Probably not necessary to bash Britain. There's a bit of that in this thread. The KEF R3s weren't too bad, if I recall.

 

[AudioSceptic]

With Linn it should be Naim that tune.

Groan

 

[Xyrium]

That was Linn's philosophy with their first "wave" of speakers, Isobarik, Sara, and Kan. It's always made a lot of sense to me, especially for the small rooms we tend to have in the UK.

I wonder, can the Klippel emulate predicted in room response when reinforced with a room boundary?

 

[AudioSceptic]

Martin Colloms measured it in a HiFi Choice book at the time. Not bad but more of a curio with a soft clipped 20WPC with the wind behind it and severaly rolled off bass on the vinyl input (or peaked up lower hf, however you see the plot). Current issue smaller Naims do seem to be 20db or so better in terms of distortion on the Stereophile measurements I've seen but these days it's not saying much.

And yet they could drive real speakers better than many of the absurd, and absurdly overpriced, "audiophile" amps of the time, such as conrad-johnson and Audio Research. That was probably also true of the original Quad 405.

 

[Sonny1]

ATC and "bling" ? I thought one of their selling points was their accuracy, and customers overlooked their staid appearance......

In this case it’s “badge” bling. The false pretense of “accuracy”, from a company selling antiquated,’poorly designed/measuring over-priced speakers. It’s the modern day bling.

 

[AudioSceptic]

As an ignorant American, I had to do a search on deep-fried Mars bars. I had no idea this was a thing. I've always enjoyed Scotland, and some of my favorite colleagues over the years have been Scots, but now that I'm educated I have to say that Scotland just moved down a notch or two on my intelligence scale. A deep-fried Mars bar just might be the unhealthiest food ever conceived.

Only kidding. A little...

This might well be a myth that started as a joke but is now taken as fact.

 

[AudioSceptic]

I wonder, can the Klippel emulate predicted in room response when reinforced with a room boundary?

That would be extremely useful, assuming the system can't simply measure them already in that position.

 

[Soniclife]

I wonder, can the Klippel emulate predicted in room response when reinforced with a room boundary?

It might be possible to give a range of reinforcement guesses for speakers, or a max reinforcement guess, there can be no single line, when you look at different measurements of the same speaker in peoples rooms they can be all over the place. It would be great if more people who own measured speakers could post some listening position measurements so we can see how the predictions hold up.

 

[anmpr1]

Comments on points made in this thread (in no particular order):

a) If you like the sound of your loudspeaker then you like it. Don't worry, be happy.

b) It is possible to obtain a reasonable facsimile of quantifiable bass in a small box if you throw in enough power and design the driver to handle it. Just ask Bob Carver.

c) If you see a Range Rover on the street and want to guess the price, start high and add twenty thousand dollars.

d) If you want to buy a Range Rover at a good price, buy used, and add twenty thousand dollars to your budget for repairs.

c) The best driving practical small car is the Golf GTI (or an 'R' if you can afford it). If you like that sort of driving experience but need something a bit larger, the Audi Q5 makes a more or less reasonable substitute.

d) The best off road is a dirt bike. If you need to carry a passanger then it's a Jeep (the small 2-door Wrangler). But it's smaller than a Golf and very questionable as a daily driver on pavement. Can you say Death Wobble? I knew you could.

 

[DSJR]

ATC seems to be a more evolved company than the one I knew in the 90's and the current designer (in his late twenties to early thirties I'd estimate) seems to have his eye on the ball. To misjudge an entire manufacturer's output on one long ago discontinued model is rather unfair (the 11v2 and 19v2 seem to have corrected much of the criticism leveled here in fairness). At least PMC are consistent in their measurements in their domestic ranges, good or bad.

As for the LS3/5A, the Stereophile measurements of the Falcon 're-make' tell you all you need to know as the response is similar to the rather disastrous mid 80's examples and not quite as smooth around 1 - 2khz as the mid 70's models were. The 'fizzing up' above 10khz was deliberate and I was told it was the added mesh 'protector' over the tweeter dome that did it (the T27 tweeter was already a slightly 'wiry' sounding device, although in vinyl days it aided reproduced string tone in the better speakers using it)...

 

[MediumRare]

This is a specific question that has been raised before; the in-room curve from the Klippel spinorama is some kind of average and does not include specific response for e.g. a near- or in-wall placement of a speaker.

Not correct AFAIK. It does provide the specific content for each wall/floor/ceiling reflection component so one could check that and consider for oneself. Is front wall reflection under-reported here? If one increased the weight of that would it "fix" the speaker?

 

[MediumRare]

Agreed that room response needs more input data. Speakers that are designed to be in- or near-wall placed are usually given less baffle step compensation compared to speakers designed being far from rear wall.

Did you read the manufacturers recommendation these are to be placed away from walls an corners? You are pushing a false narrative. The spin data also shows front wall reflections to be even more unbalanced FR than the average.

 

[Thomas_A]

Not correct AFAIK. It does provide the specific content for each wall/floor/ceiling reflection component so one could check that and consider for oneself. Is rear wall reflection under-reported here? If one increased the weight of that would it "fix" the speaker?

The Klippel software adds around 3 dB room gain at 100 Hz vs the level at 700-1000 Hz as far as I've seen. If ATC monitor could be placed to get a + 6 dB gain you will get a linear curve, but that will apply to the room curve. Thus it will sound bass-shy and bright in-room, IMO.

 

[Thomas_A]

Did you read the manufacturers recommendation these are to be placed away from walls an corners? You are pushing a false narrative. The spin data also shows front wall reflections to be every more unbalanced FR than the average.

Yes I read that, and that is just plainly wrong. Pushing it to be an "in-wall" speaker can stretch it to give a linear response in-room, but since that is not an ideal response for a room, it will still sound bass-shy and bright, IMO.

 

[Frank Dernie]

How does a Toyota fare in comparison

The Land Cruiser is a good off roader but not as comfortable on the road as a proper car.
There are plenty of "Chesea tractors" about nowadays which are faux off roaders with fashionable styling and they ride better than Land Cruisers but are almost all poor off road.
The Range Rover is a case in point, it has extraordinary off road ability but less than 0.1% of buyers will use it and for those who would find this performance useful it is far too expensive and fancy inside. It is a completely pointless vehicle but astonishingly popular.
It has a smooth ride but feels like it might fall over any moment IME.

the Audi Q5 makes a more or less reasonable substitute.

 

[Tangband]

The Klippel software adds around 3 dB room gain at 100 Hz vs the level at 700-1000 Hz as far as I've seen. If ATC monitor could be placed to get a + 6 dB gain you will get a linear curve, but that will apply to the room curve. Thus it will sound bass-shy and bright in-room, IMO.

Thomas A is absolutely correct.
The listening with only one loudspeaker in a big garage without a wall behind is very misleading.
But its nice to read about the distorsion measurements and the overall frequency response.
The sound from these monitors are, overall, much better than for example Jbl 305 mkII. If set up correctly, ofcourse.

The directivity is not as good as Kef or Jbl , but the quality of the loudspeaker driver and loudspeakerbox are much better- making this loudspeaker sound better.

 

[DSJR]

And yet they could drive real speakers better than many of the absurd, and absurdly overpriced, "audiophile" amps of the time, such as conrad-johnson and Audio Research. That was probably also true of the original Quad 405.

The one single thing we have to thank Naim for was the opinion that an amplifer had to drive an often complex speaker load with a music signal rather than one frequency into an 8 ohm resistor on a test bench. Having said that, Naim also made some popular but huge clunkers of amps, the NAP 90's, 110 and Nait 3 being classicly awful gutless devices (the 110 was harsh from new and stayed that way) which only really sold to get people on the never ending upgrade ladder that Naim specialise in to this day, especially if you go active. The Quad 405 in either marque was far too small* to allow higher current output continuously, so they apparently optimised it for 6 ohm loads which seemed ok for their by then increasingly fragile (as the music tastes changed and amp power increased) '57' speakers which eventually had their own limiters fitted (originally you had to further limit the current output in the 405). They genuinely couldn't understand it seems, why speakers were becoming so much more difficult in terms of loading, but behind the scenes, the mk1 405 boards went through several changes of layout at least, the final mk2 version being I think, 'issue 10 version 7' if memory serves.

* Into my ATC 20's, a freshly updated to mk2 405 regularly cooked itself, getting very hot on top indeed (I didn't *think* I was thrashing it ).

Quad carried on in the back-room and came up with the hugely better (for good music at higher power levels) 'pro' 500 and 606 family of amps which continues today in the (excellent to me) Artera power amp and QSP. No competition for the likes of the Benchmark or third party Hypex/Purify builds I'm sure, but a good known and solid performer which in early versions (606) only put me off due to appearance! I'm assuming Amir used his large amp to drive the ATC's, as it's my experience the passive ATC's needed something like a Quad 606 power output at least.

 

[anmpr1]

The key to my statement was 'if you need something a bit larger than a Golf'. As an erstwhile owner of a Mk 7 GTI and a current Q5 I can attest that they are more similar than different. Both in fit and finish and driving dynamics. That is what you'd expect given the DNA.

Of course a better match for the GTI, and especially the R, would be one of the S or RS models, respectively.