GR Research X-LS Encore Kit Speaker Review

[DIY Newbie 2020]

Amir is pretty backlogged and I did request that he test the S2000s first.

Since he is still busy with his harvest too, will be better when Amir has time to critically listen to the basic and premium speaker. Nobody is expecting any change in measurements (including the designer). Even the basic crossover uses quality components, so any audible difference will have the same caveats that any other subjective evaluation has (equipment and condition diffs, expectation and potential other bias, etc.).

If you want to hear some major improvement to a basic X-LS encore, try the tower cabinet. However, at the price for the premium version, IME you can get better value from numerous other speakers.

Hi Rick,
Did Amir get the upgraded X-LS Encores to test? What is the difference?

 

[mhardy6647]

So what do you think? How old would they be? I bet they still sound great.

I liked them a lot! I have no idea how old they are, though.

 

[Rick Sykora]

Hi Rick,
Did Amir get the upgraded X-LS Encores to test? What is the difference?

Yes, quite a while ago, but sure he has other priorities. When Danny changed component values and started complaining about Amir’s equipment and room, looked like it would come down to Amir’s opinion vs Danny’s. Amir already said it sounds decent, so validating anything more would require DBT and the like.

Maybe Amir will still do, but at this point, why not do on a better and newer speaker? Notably, at some point in the future, it should be possible to readily compare and active Directiva to various passive versions.

 

[bunkbail]

started complaining about Amir’s equipment and room

Where did he say that? On his forum?

 

[Rick Sykora]

Where did he say that? On his forum?

Pretty sure Amir mentioned it here, but not sure where. I remember it from correspondence as I tried to mediate.

 

[DIY Newbie 2020]

Quick update: Rick has been going back and forth with Danny. Where we landed is that Danny will be sending me a pair he has built for testing. I am assuming his pair has all of his optional components.

Hi Amir,
I like your YouTube videos. Keep them coming. I have asked and others have said that you most likely will not test the speakers Danny sent you. Will you be testing them for an A/B? It would be a shame to leave this hanging. I am a fan of the encores but like to know that there is science behind the upgrades. Can you put this one to bed once and for all.

 

[Rick Sykora]

Hi Amir,
I like your YouTube videos. Keep them coming. I have asked and others have said that you most likely will not test the speakers Danny sent you. Will you be testing them for an A/B? It would be a shame to leave this hanging. I am a fan of the encores but like to know that there is science behind the upgrades. Can you put this one to bed once and for all.

For the record, Danny balked at sending his speakers when he found out about the mono listening. After Amir agreed to listen in stereo, the next hurdle was Amir’s equipment and room. Shortly after that Danny decided he would not get a fair outcome and reneged on sending his speakers at all. At this point, Amir agreed to fund building another speaker with most of Danny’s extras except the tube connectors. This was built and sent to Amir, but everyone agreed (including Danny), that the speaker would not measure any differently.

At this point, it was becoming obvious that further testing by Amir would not settle anything. While I did finish and ship a premium version to Amir, he has not tested. Amir is experienced enough to know, that further testing will not resolve anything. The testing has moved into the realm of subjectivity. We had reached a point of spending more to do double blind test in the middle of a global pandemic. Even with the lull in pandemic here, the burden is on Danny to prove his claims.

So, suggest you continue to enjoy what you have for now. While I would like to see the upgraded speaker tested too, I am realistic that it will not bring this argument to any true closure. Just for future reference, Amir does not see (or respond) to all activity on ASR, but addressing @amirm gives it a better chance.

 

[Selah Audio]

For the record, Danny balked at sending his speakers when he found out about the mono listening. After Amir agreed to listen in stereo, the next hurdle was Amir’s equipment and room. Shortly after that Danny decided he would not get a fair outcome and reneged on sending his speakers at all. At this point, Amir agreed to fund building another speaker with most of Danny’s extras except the tube connectors. This was built and sent to Amir, but everyone agreed (including Danny), that the speaker would not measure any differently.

At this point, it was becoming obvious that further testing by Amir would not settle anything. While I did finish and ship a premium version to Amir, he has not tested. Amir is experienced enough to know, that further testing will not resolve anything. The testing has moved into the realm of subjectivity. We had reached a point of spending more to do double blind test in the middle of a global pandemic. Even with the lull in pandemic here, the burden is on Danny to prove his claims.

So, suggest you continue to enjoy what you have for now. While I would like to see the upgraded speaker tested too, I am realistic that it will not bring this argument to any true closure. Just for future reference, Amir does not see (or respond) to all activity on ASR, but addressing @amirm gives it a better chance.

It's funny how the speaker's owner has a system with great resolution if he/she thinks the speakers sound good. That means a cheap receiver is approved unlike Amir's very high quality rig. If the up-sell extras include different tolerance parts and / or inductors then it would measure differently.

 

[DIY Newbie 2020]

For the record, Danny balked at sending his speakers when he found out about the mono listening. After Amir agreed to listen in stereo, the next hurdle was Amir’s equipment and room. Shortly after that Danny decided he would not get a fair outcome and reneged on sending his speakers at all. At this point, Amir agreed to fund building another speaker with most of Danny’s extras except the tube connectors. This was built and sent to Amir, but everyone agreed (including Danny), that the speaker would not measure any differently.

At this point, it was becoming obvious that further testing by Amir would not settle anything. While I did finish and ship a premium version to Amir, he has not tested. Amir is experienced enough to know, that further testing will not resolve anything. The testing has moved into the realm of subjectivity. We had reached a point of spending more to do double blind test in the middle of a global pandemic. Even with the lull in pandemic here, the burden is on Danny to prove his claims.

So, suggest you continue to enjoy what you have for now. While I would like to see the upgraded speaker tested too, I am realistic that it will not bring this argument to any true closure. Just for future reference, Amir does not see (or respond) to all activity on ASR, but addressing @amirm gives it a better chance.

Thanks Rick,
You have made it clear that we all agree that it would probably make no difference.
Amir may have some of the best gear and Danny may or may not agree with his methods but I would like to hear what Amir thought of the upgrade from his best instruments, his ears. I like and respect the work he puts in and if he measured it and there was not difference then so be it. I feel the price premium for audiophile parts needs to be more than a feeling there is a difference. I will continue to enjoy what I have and I hope you do to. I will leave it at that as you said the upgraded speaker most likely will not get tested. All good.
Cheers mate

 

[Edgar]

I watched many of Danny's videos. With almost any upgrades, including those tube connectors, he claims it brings the speakers to "another level". New capacitors: "another level", new inductors: "another level", tube connectors: "another level"
Personally I thing "another level" should be recognizable right away. And three of those "another level" upgrades should make a night and day difference. Or not?

 

[Selah Audio]

I watched many of Danny's videos. With almost any upgrades, including those tube connectors, he claims it brings the speakers to "another level". New capacitors: "another level", new inductors: "another level", tube connectors: "another level"
Personally I thing "another level" should be recognizable right away. And three of those "another level" upgrades should make a night and day difference. Or not?

You just have to be on another level to understand.

 

[01svtL]

Sorry if it has been asked, but does anyone know if these will drop into the PE Amiga cabinets?

 

[Rick Sykora]

Sorry if it has been asked, but does anyone know if these will drop into the PE Amiga cabinets?

Welcome to ASR!

The mechanical drop-in should be close. Acoustically, the distance between the drivers would change and is likely problematic if you use the GR crossover. Using the Amiga crossover does not work as, amongst other likely mimatches, the GR woofer is much more sensitive than the Dayton.

In any case, any further discussion should be in the DIY forum or via PM. This is a review thread and mods are off topic.

 

[01svtL]

Welcome to ASR!

The mechanical drop-in should be close. Acoustically, the distance between the drivers would change and is likely problematic if you use the GR crossover. Using the Amiga crossover does not work aa the GR woofer is much more sensitive than the Dayton.

In any case, any further discussion should be in the DIY forum or via PM. This is a review thread and mods are off topic.

Understood. I appreciate the reply! Sorry for the derail.

 

[Abe_W]

Correct. When I ordered the kit, the website was not clear and I already had alternatives on hand. Given it would have added about 40% more to the price, it seemed a pricey addition.

See details in the build thread here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-of-gr-research-x-ls-encore.14312/post-439676

So you cheap'd out with the cheapest nastiest "alternative" you had in hand. Considering the fact that you went with the lousiest possible route to build a speaker, the GR speaker did quite well.

 

[Rick Sykora]

I would not put it that way, but to get the whole picture, you likely need to read a bit more. This might help...

1. Amir was funding this one, so he made the call on what I ordered for review purposes.
2. Did build the first speaker with more than GR's bare bones. The tested unit was representative of typical DIY speakers.
3. The unit tested well enough despite using dated drivers. The value is up to the buyer. There are plenty of good alternatives.

I built for Amir and he reviewed. We took the same approach with the Dayton C-Note and it reviewed well too.

 

[Rick Sykora]

New GR website has same old stuff (and problems)!

 

[Billy Budapest]

New GR website has same old stuff (and problems)!

Danny is a weird guy. He knows how to measure speakers but the conclusions he draws from his measurements are sometimes odd, and he has some bizarre ideas about component selections (i.e., he is allergic to what he calls “cheesy” ceramic resistors even though they are the best component for the job in a speaker crossover and he promotes those stupid speaker wire connectors he invented as having massive benefits over regular binding posts). It’s obvious why—“upgraded” crossover components are where he makes his money.

 

[NoSnakeOil2]

Has anyone tested these speakers with all the "voodoo tweaks" in play? Just wondering what all the fuss was about. Thanks.

 

[amirm]

Has anyone tested these speakers with all the "voodoo tweaks" in play? Just wondering what all the fuss was about. Thanks.

I have the voodoo version of the crossover which Rick was kind enough to build. I just haven't had time to spend on it to see what it does. It is on my TODO list though.