Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

[USER]

I use it stock. I run digital RIAA though the filters I posted on the script thread. The set up is exactly as I describe it on the sticky on this thread and is very simple. The low impedance is no issue with 24-32 bit recording on my laptop and the output is at the level I would want regardless. This is my digitization and measurement set-up. I could figure out real time digital RIAA filtering for regular record playback buy I much prefer to listen to digital music. I only use vinyl for archiving/preservation and I stream my digitized recordings. I have a few phono preamp and turntable options for when I feel like playing vinyl.

The bonus with my Wayne Kirkwood Flat MM and E1DA Cosmos (and laptop) combo other than completely transparent sound quality is that it is portable.

 

[FERCSA]

All I need is time...

View attachment 304752

Nice! I can't wait the results. I just bought one of them from your picture. Let's hope I put my money on a good one (measurement wise).

 

[GXAlan]

The Sharp RP-117 is a self-contained linear tracking turntable with the claim-to-fame of being dual-sided play. This is just side A. What is sort of surprising is that there is no grounding lug for the RP-117 even though it does not output line-level -- it outputs phono level and requires RIAA correction. Yet, you have no ground loop or buzz. In contrast, all of my other turntables do in fact have a grounding lug and need that grounding wire.

The Korg DS-DAC-10R is used for convenience, but I haven't had a chance to assess the channel balance of the ADC itself.

 

[melloncolliecat]

Some TT's don't have a separate grounding cable, it's done through one of the RCA cables instead. My old JVC JL-A1 was like that, and I have seen it on plenty of others too...

 

[GXAlan]

Some TT's don't have a separate grounding cable, it's done through one of the RCA cables instead. My old JVC JL-A1 was like that, and I have seen it on plenty of others too...

I was surprised -- it seems like a good idea to me to avoid an extra cable whenever possible. If the RCA grounding works, it seems like the extra grounding cable is unnecessary?

What's also been interesting to see is how neutral the Shure V15 type V is, and how a good majority of cartridges have a treble boost. I wonder if that's designed to counteract the "average" treble that gets recorded in the average album versus, perhaps, the more carefully designed "test LPs"

 

[DrCWO]

Some TT's don't have a separate grounding cable, it's done through one of the RCA cables instead. My old JVC JL-A1 was like that, and I have seen it on plenty of others too...

The Phono cable I gut from ProJect for my ADI-2/3 XLR input has no extra grounding cable by default. Grund is supplied via pin 1 of the XLR. I had no issue with that after removing the grounding shell at my V15V-MR.
I think extra grounding is an issue of unsymmetrical connections only...

 

[Elkerton]

GXAlan,

Did you read the blind screen comparison Floyd Toole made back in 1980 I posted? Similar results with an earlier V15 IV:

Toole Blind Cartridge Comparison

From Audio Scene Canada August 1980, a blind screen comparison by Floyd Toole of 2 MCs and a MM which I decided to add under its own thread rather than at least 2 others to which I might have added it.

www.audiosciencereview.com

The final comparison made with an equalized V15 IV to match the rising high frequency response of the Denon DL 103 is telling.

 

[JP]

The Phono cable I gut from ProJect for my ADI-2/3 XLR input has no extra grounding cable by default. Grund is supplied via pin 1 of the XLR. I had no issue with that after removing the grounding shell at my V15V-MR.
I think extra grounding is an issue of unsymmetrical connections only...

You also want to ensure the chassis/bearing is grounded somewhere - it is on most 'tables. My arms are XLR but the motor units are completely separate, so the ground lug on my phono stage is used to ground the 'table chassis whereas the arm is grounded via pin 1 on the XLRs.

 

[DrCWO]

Did you read the blind screen comparison Floyd Toole made back in 1980 I posted? Similar results with an earlier V15 IV:

Yes I did some time ago.

That confirms my preference for the V15V-MR
Very good frequency response, excellent channel separation, high trackability and less noise because you don't need an MC preamp.

• Turntable is a ProJect RPM9 Carbon with 9” cc EVO Carbon tonearm.
• I didn't bother with the cable capacitance and corrected the high frequency response with EQ5 of the connected RME-ADI-2/4 (MM RIAA) as described in the manual.
• The connection from the pickup to the ADI-2/4 is XLR in my case. Pin 2 and 3 bridged with a 100k resistor (I soldered it into the connector as recommended in the ADI-2/4 Manual).
• Last I removed the ground tab between the pickup enclosure as describe here. In addition I connected the pickup enclosure to the ground cable in the tonearm. This procedure completely removed mains induced hum.

This is what I got:

Edit: Just forgot to mention...
I also verified the result acoustically and the spatiality was stunning.
Sometimes I really like this little Sound processing equipment

 

[dlaloum]

GXAlan,

Did you read the blind screen comparison Floyd Toole made back in 1980 I posted? Similar results with an earlier V15 IV:

Toole Blind Cartridge Comparison

From Audio Scene Canada August 1980, a blind screen comparison by Floyd Toole of 2 MCs and a MM which I decided to add under its own thread rather than at least 2 others to which I might have added it.

www.audiosciencereview.com

The final comparison made with an equalized V15 IV to match the rising high frequency response of the Denon DL 103 is telling.

This is why I keep saying the key difference between cartridges (/ styli) is the effective mass of the cantilever.... (and to a lesser degree, the profile of the needle, specifically the length / width of the contact patch)

Everything else can be adjusted through EQ - which in the past made MM's the better option, as loading allowed for an easy (relatively!!) way to EQ.

Now with digital EQ being ubiquitous, it becomes a lot easier - and therefore it is even more a matter of cantilever/needle effective mass .... with the rest being pretty much irrelevant.

(and that is where the tar and pitchforks come out, and I get burned at the stake....)

 

[Balle Clorin]

Shure V15 V HE with failed suspension?

NOS to very litte use 1982. Cannot track properly , tried 1-3 gram, using brush helps a little

• Cartridge: Shure V15 V with original Hyperlliptical stylus(Beryllium)
• Stylus condition NOS, few hours,
• Test record: ClearAudio TRS-1007 side A track 1&2 L/R stereo
• Turntable and arm: Sony PS -212 Direct drive. Measured peak wow <0.11%.
• Tracking force: 1.5g cannote track anything at 1g
• Phono stage and loading settings: Cambridge CP2
  • Capacitance and impedance: 220pF fixed, 47k ohm . Total 125pF on cables= 345pF total
  • Low rumble filter active
• Cable capacitance
  • 125pF
• 
  
• ADC:Tascam US.144mkII 15kOhm input impedance, may give bass rolloff on some RIAA
• 
  
• riaamode = 2
  riaainv = 1
  str100 = 0
• normalize = 1000
  file0norm = 1

VERY LOW OUTPUT, 10db less than another PU with same specified 3.2mV/5cm/s, that is 1mV output
THIS IS A BROKEN CARTRIDGE as it is, sounds horrible
Stylus assembly completely stiff, no compliance, no sag when stylus hits record 1-2-3 grams.

I guess I should stay away from NOS cartridges...this time a got I a complete refund

 

[DrCWO]

Shure V15 V HE with failed suspension?

View attachment 307989


NOS to very litte use 1982. Cannot track properly , tried 1-3 gram, using brush helps a little

• Cartridge: Shure V15 V with original Hyperlliptical stylus(Beryllium)
• Stylus condition NOS, few hours,
• Test record: ClearAudio TRS-1007 side A track 1&2 L/R stereo
• Turntable and arm: Sony PS -212 Direct drive. Measured peak wow <0.11%.
• Tracking force: 1.5g cannote track anything at 1g
• Phono stage and loading settings: Cambridge CP2
  • Capacitance and impedance: 220pF fixed, 47k ohm . Total 125pF on cables= 345pF total
  • Low rumble filter active
• Cable capacitance
  • 125pF
• 
  
• ADC:Tascam US.144mkII 15kOhm input impedance, may give bass rolloff on some RIAA
• 
  
• riaamode = 2
  riaainv = 1
  str100 = 0
• normalize = 1000
  file0norm = 1

VERY LOW OUTPUT, 10db less than another PU with same specified 3.2mV/5cm/s, that is 1mV output
THIS IS A BROKEN CARTRIDGE as it is, sounds horrible
Stylus assembly completely stiff, no compliance, no sag when stylus hits record 1-2-3 grams.

I guess I should stay away from NOS cartridges...this time a got I a complete refund
View attachment 307993

Seems the stylus was not protected against Ozone all these years as Ozone hardens the rubber of the Shure needles

 

[USER]

Shure V15 V HE with failed suspension?

View attachment 307989


NOS to very litte use 1982. Cannot track properly , tried 1-3 gram, using brush helps a little

• Cartridge: Shure V15 V with original Hyperlliptical stylus(Beryllium)
• Stylus condition NOS, few hours,
• Test record: ClearAudio TRS-1007 side A track 1&2 L/R stereo
• Turntable and arm: Sony PS -212 Direct drive. Measured peak wow <0.11%.
• Tracking force: 1.5g cannote track anything at 1g
• Phono stage and loading settings: Cambridge CP2
  • Capacitance and impedance: 220pF fixed, 47k ohm . Total 125pF on cables= 345pF total
  • Low rumble filter active
• Cable capacitance
  • 125pF
• 
  
• ADC:Tascam US.144mkII 15kOhm input impedance, may give bass rolloff on some RIAA
• 
  
• riaamode = 2
  riaainv = 1
  str100 = 0
• normalize = 1000
  file0norm = 1

VERY LOW OUTPUT, 10db less than another PU with same specified 3.2mV/5cm/s, that is 1mV output
THIS IS A BROKEN CARTRIDGE as it is, sounds horrible
Stylus assembly completely stiff, no compliance, no sag when stylus hits record 1-2-3 grams.

I guess I should stay away from NOS cartridges...this time a got I a complete refund
View attachment 307993

Funny enough I recently got a used set with HE stylus and simply looking at it shows me it has suspension issues. There may be a manufacturing issue with the suspension material for that particular stylus. I've read the IV version shows issues as well.

I hope to start posting measurements again next week. My poor cat has been in the hospital numerous times during the past few weeks and is now finally home recovering from surgery. We are pausing on everything to look after him.

 

[Balle Clorin]

I can buy a NOS new in box ML120HE , but after this experience I am quite unsure about taking the risk of buying more Shure garbage. Maybe a Jico SAS/B for my IV will be money better spent. I guess coils do not degrade as styluses do…

 

[Thomas_A]

I can buy a NOS new in box ML120HE , but after this experience I am quite unsure about taking the risk of buying more Shure garbage. Maybe a Jico SAS/B for my IV will be money better spent. I guess coils do not degrade as styluses do…

If you have not tried it I recommend Jico SAS/B. You can pry away the covers of the brush hinges and apply a tiny amount of mineral oil of high viscosity using a tooth pick, reattach the covers. Then you have good damping function as well.

 

[dlaloum]

Shure V15 V HE with failed suspension?

View attachment 307989


NOS to very litte use 1982. Cannot track properly , tried 1-3 gram, using brush helps a little

• Cartridge: Shure V15 V with original Hyperlliptical stylus(Beryllium)
• Stylus condition NOS, few hours,
• Test record: ClearAudio TRS-1007 side A track 1&2 L/R stereo
• Turntable and arm: Sony PS -212 Direct drive. Measured peak wow <0.11%.
• Tracking force: 1.5g cannote track anything at 1g
• Phono stage and loading settings: Cambridge CP2
  • Capacitance and impedance: 220pF fixed, 47k ohm . Total 125pF on cables= 345pF total
  • Low rumble filter active
• Cable capacitance
  • 125pF
• 
  
• ADC:Tascam US.144mkII 15kOhm input impedance, may give bass rolloff on some RIAA
• 
  
• riaamode = 2
  riaainv = 1
  str100 = 0
• normalize = 1000
  file0norm = 1

VERY LOW OUTPUT, 10db less than another PU with same specified 3.2mV/5cm/s, that is 1mV output
THIS IS A BROKEN CARTRIDGE as it is, sounds horrible
Stylus assembly completely stiff, no compliance, no sag when stylus hits record 1-2-3 grams.

I guess I should stay away from NOS cartridges...this time a got I a complete refund
View attachment 307993

If the cantilever was intact, it would be worth sending to a retipper for suspension replacement...

 

[Balle Clorin]

Jico sas Shure vn45he

 

[Balle Clorin]

Shure V15 V HE with failed suspension?

View attachment 307989


NOS to very litte use 1982. Cannot track properly , tried 1-3 gram, using brush helps a little

• Cartridge: Shure V15 V with original Hyperlliptical stylus(Beryllium)
• Stylus condition NOS, few hours,
• Test record: ClearAudio TRS-1007 side A track 1&2 L/R stereo
• Turntable and arm: Sony PS -212 Direct drive. Measured peak wow <0.11%.
• Tracking force: 1.5g cannote track anything at 1g
• Phono stage and loading settings: Cambridge CP2
  • Capacitance and impedance: 220pF fixed, 47k ohm . Total 125pF on cables= 345pF total
  • Low rumble filter active
• Cable capacitance
  • 125pF
• 
  
• ADC:Tascam US.144mkII 15kOhm input impedance, may give bass rolloff on some RIAA
• 
  
• riaamode = 2
  riaainv = 1
  str100 = 0
• normalize = 1000
  file0norm = 1

VERY LOW OUTPUT, 10db less than another PU with same specified 3.2mV/5cm/s, that is 1mV output
THIS IS A BROKEN CARTRIDGE as it is, sounds horrible
Stylus assembly completely stiff, no compliance, no sag when stylus hits record 1-2-3 grams.

I guess I should stay away from NOS cartridges...this time a got I a complete refund
View attachment 307993

Shure explain the problem here,

https://service.shure.com/s/article/phono-cartridge-sounds-thin-after-storage?language=en_US

 

[GXAlan]

Shure explain the problem here,

https://service.shure.com/s/article/phono-cartridge-sounds-thin-after-storage?language=en_US

I admit I don’t fully understand the components of the suspension versus the stylus.

The body of the MM cartridge lasts indefinitely, right? When you replace the stylus, you’re replacing the stylus, cantilever, and suspension in a single product, right?

 

[dougi]

I admit I don’t fully understand the components of the suspension versus the stylus.

The body of the MM cartridge lasts indefinitely, right? When you replace the stylus, you’re replacing the stylus, cantilever, and suspension in a single product, right?

I believe so.