Audioholics mentioned this in their latest video too.
I watched that video before but I don't remember that guy recommending extreme toe-in. Or..?
Audioholics mentioned this in their latest video too.
As far as I know, there's no direct research on this, so you have me there. That said, this shouldn't be about winning an argument. This is about logic. What do you honestly think. If you have very narrow dispersion speakers, then extreme toe in means that as you get further away from the left speaker, you become more on axis to the left speaker. Do you disagree with this?
I already agreed that extreme toe-in emphasizes direct sound and reduces reflections. Honestly, I tried it and it sounded awful.
What speakers do you use?
I own very narrow dispersion speakers. With no toe in, the sweet spot is about 2-3inches wide. With on axis toe in, it's maybe 8inches wide. With extreme toe in, it's 3ft wide.
"Just the response you have in writing"? That seems uite official and valid to me.
Sure they do. And why wouldn't they? Or you think Dolby engineers got it wrong?
Do you care to provide some proof for that "fact"?
I know what Geddes says, I read his directivity paper about that, but I would prefer some measurements instead of his opinion.
Which speakers do you have? What is the distance between your LP and them?
It would be easier to talk about this if you can post measurements done from your LP for all these 3 scenarios.
They are in the presentation I linkedI know what Geddes says, I read his directivity paper about that, but I would prefer some measurements instead of his opinion.
So it can be true that the R3 sounds best with no toe in and that it will have the largest sweet spot with extreme toe in.
Did you completely miss all the conversation we had about this earlier in the thread? This is not some new half-baked theory somebody on this board came up with. Can you not look at horizontal off-axis measurements of relatively narrow, relatively constant directivity speakers, do a little geometry and figure out for yourself there might be something to it? Or better yet, try it with some appropriate speakers (though I haven't seen measurements for your speakers, from their design it's doubtful they'd be good candidates)?I suggest you ask KEF to check that theory. I would be really interested to hear what will they answer.
I suggest you ask KEF to check that theory. I would be really interested to hear what will they answer.
Btw, I find it interesting that Dolby guys are not using that trick as with AV setups you do need a wide sweetspot.
Not going to bother them just for what I consider to be common and factual knowledge, but if I remember I'll bring it up next time I review one of their speakers. I have already tested this with the R3s and about a dozen other speakers -- essentially every time I test a speaker with a substantial waveguide.
In any case, there are about 5 different papers/resources above you can read through . It's very easy to test yourself with narrower directivtiy/Constant directivity designs. Try no toe in, then try extreme toe in, and sit a foot to left or right of your sweet spot. See which one has the more stable stereo image then.
Dolby can't universally recommend it because it only works with some types of speakers, and there's no point to it if you have a center speaker.
In any case, it's not clear the dolby image actually implies anything about toe in. The angles presented in the graphic may be about the speaker's spatial location in your room, not how much they should be toed in. And obviously, not every speaker on the market should be toed in the same, but positioning does matter in the way sounds are mixed for dolby standards.
You're really missing the point.So you would recommend to all owners of say Revel F208 to apply extreme toe-in to their speakers so they are crossed several feets before them?
Is that how you listen to your speakers?
You claimed that extreme toe-in widens the sweet spot. As KEF engineers don't recommend any toe-in, or in some special cases only moderate, you must know something they don't.
So you would recommend to all owners of say Revel F208 to apply extreme toe-in to their speakers so they are crossed several feets before them?
Is that how you listen to your speakers?
Btw, I just looked at a photos of Toole's and @amirm room and that is not how their speakers are positioned. Have they no clue how it should be or their speakers are not directional enough?