Marantz Cinema 40 AVR Review

[peng]

also this is twice the price of the denon 3800 so.... make your peace, pay the price?

Of course, but the Denon 3800 should be compared to the Cinema 50.

 

[beagleman]

The values for 2ohm were determined in the imp.sel. 8ohm position, correct? I don't know the exact protection design of this AVR, but couldn't it be that even more current is tolerated for 2ohm in the 4ohm position?
Has anything like this ever been measured?

Pretty sure the lower ohm settings on most AVRs actually impose a limit on rail voltage or some similar effect to prevent more power and heat.

 

[sweetchaos]

You can purchase Dirac Live and Dirac Live Bass Control (DLBC) for this unit at:

Marantz CINEMA 40 – Dirac

Dirac Live for Marantz CINEMA 40 Get your license

www.dirac.com

Currently DLBC is 30% off until Jan 15, 2024.

You can also compare all DLBC capable AVRs in my comparison thread. See signature.

 

[AdamG]

Amir your throughput of late is very impressive. I hope you are planning to give your Panther Crew a nice Bonus and a few days off for Christmas. December has been an incredibly productive Month Sir. Thank you for your dedication and endurance.

 

[Jasperous]

Now imagine you can buy this or super conductor cable for your abyss 1266... For roughly the same price


If the high-end in audio is not the most overpriced thing in the world I don't know what is.

Velben goods, my friend... idiots and velben goods.

 

[Jasperous]

So... this guy performs the same as my Denon X3700H, at more than 3x the price (that I bought it, 2021 for 1400 CAD inclusive of taxes). Does Marantz really have that kind of cachet still? I feel like I'm on crazy pills when I see Marantz equipment and then compare it to Denon.

 

[Tovarich007]

Anyway, performances are good, built qulity is good considering the complexity of such a device, and seems to get better from previous generation, which is not always the case.
The measured little draw backs and flaws should be barely audible, probably not audible at all.

Denon and Marantz are designing good AV receivers -not surprisingly, being produced by the same group.
No need to push further the arguments and cut decibels into four parts as we use to say in french.
I'm not chasing the ultra high SINAD or crosstalk performance.

 

[EWL5]

ok so for the understanding of the other 99 percent non engeneering background readers of this forum... is it correct to deduce that the C40 is far far superior to the X4800 and the price difference is justified....?

because everywhere we read people say the x4800/C40 have identical components inside and sound the same and perform the same and that all the C40 gives over X4800 is asthetics.

That is a no. If you compare the the graphs side by side on dual screens, you will see they are virtually indistinguishable (you don't have to be an engineer but you should make sure the axis are the same and/or similar range when comparing).

You are already biased towards Marantz so go ahead and spend that money!

 

[Lero]

Now imagine you can buy this or super conductor cable for your abyss 1266... For roughly the same price


If the high-end in audio is not the most overpriced thing in the world I don't know what is.

I wish it was just overpriced, it would means its expansive but by increasing price you slowly get increasing quality, its straight bs, because its based on pure speculation and LIES.

 

[RandomEar]

Now imagine you can buy this or super conductor cable for your abyss 1266... For roughly the same price


If the high-end in audio is not the most overpriced thing in the world I don't know what is.

Ever bought OEM printer ink?

 

[IamJF]

It should as HDMI is certainly the most common source. The "issue" if you call it is that I use my computer as HDMI source. Everyone else uses an HDMI module in the AP analyzer. From past interactions, it seems that the AP generates a cleaner HDMI signal (as it should). Is a standard HDMI source (BD player) as clean as the AP HDMI module or my PC? I don't know. I need to measure that at some point.

Meanwhile I asked AP how much their new HDMI module costs. I think they said $7,000! And it won't fit my version of the APx555 to boot. So I can't do any comparisons.

AP get's more and more greedy ... I paid 6k this year to get my software to the newest version and keep it updated for the next 5 years - so I am able to simply use my 20k measurement device! (Cause THEY had a bug with windows .NET update!)
Couldn't you use the old module for just transfering Audio? Maybe the distributor can organise that?

Aren't there any multichannel Digital Audio/HDMI converters? Such a device should do it also. Cause the Computer HDMI output ... really can't be trusted.

 

[trl]

[...]

To me, based on the measurements, D+M has done a fantastic job implementing the preamp/dac in their C40 and AVR-X4800H, or even the AVR-X3800H practically speaking. The only part I don't like, not that I think it matters audibly speaking, is their poorer performance in IMD, and I wonder why, any ideas?

Perhaps the distance between the audio signal wires and the surrounding electronic components? Some audio signal cables from inside are ribbon based instead of being fully shielded. The PCBs are designed in a way to better fit inside the case than to be designed to better measure on Audio Precision equipment (which may not fully apply to stereo amplifiers where 20-30% of the case remains free), so things like shortest path or star grounding may not be prioritised in AVRs where several PCBs are stacked on top of each other to fit inside the case. Just saying...

 

[Hart]

So they worked on this one but left the Cinema 70 as is. The Cinema 70 probably needed improvement much more than any of the other products. They have been making a lot of money on the slimline receivers but have not invested any money in improving them. Instead they put it a nicer box and sell it for more money. Shame on Marantz, that's not okay.

PS I put in a request to speak to a Marantz manager, I am sure I will get nothing but marketing double talk, but at least it will be noted.

 

[peng]

Perhaps the distance between the audio signal wires and the surrounding electronic components? Some audio signal cables from inside are ribbon based instead of being fully shielded. The PCBs are designed in a way to better fit inside the case than to be designed to better measure on Audio Precision equipment (which may not fully apply to stereo amplifiers where 20-30% of the case remains free), so things like shortest path or star grounding may not be prioritised in AVRs where several PCBs are stacked on top of each other to fit inside the case. Just saying...

I am thinking that the main reason is the DAC chip, that has higher THD, and higher THD typically result in higher IMD too. But then as I mentioned before, how did they manage to get 96 to 98 dB SINAD when just the PCM5102A has distortions higher, i.e. 93 dB, did Masimo made a deal with TI to sort out the chips tested with a few dB SINAD higher, I am speculating but it is possible as long as Masimo paid for the premium quality ones reserved for them.

 

[TuteTibiImperes]

The D

Many thanks for an excellent review that includes measuring the pre out level up to 4 V, and reactive load tests on the power amps down to 2 Ohms. I think you may be the first reviewer who included those two tests in one single bench test session. Again, thank you for the nice desert!!

It looks like D+M did manage to squeeze the 93 dB SINAD spec TI PCM5102A dry, totally dry. They should patent their DAC chip implementation for achieving the seemingly impossible 98 dB SINAD you measured on the pre outs using Toslink. Even if they use differential implementation by doubling the number of the PCM chips, it doesn't seem possible to reach 98 dB when the spec for the chip all by itself is only 93 dB. Differential implementation mainly benefits in term of may be up to 6 dB noise reduction at the most anyway.

View attachment 335438

Based on the pre out performance of the Cinema 40 and the AVR-X4800H, may be D+M/Masimo has secretly replace the PCM5102A with a better one such as the ESS's ES9010K2M??

The Denon A1H (and presumably the Marantz AV10) moved to the ESS 9018K2M chips, so it’s entirely possible the rest of the lineup has switched to ESS as well.

 

[AdamG]

Let’s all do our best to stay focused on this review and not get sidetracked by discussing Chips and other thread drift topics. First 20 pages we want to keep on topic.

Please and thank you for your Cooperation and understanding.

 

[peng]

Let’s all do our best to stay focused on this review and not get sidetracked by discussing Chips and other thread drift topics. First 20 pages we want to keep on topic.

Please and thank you for your Cooperation and understanding.

Understood, sorry I started this, but I think you can see why, as you likely know many members were not happy to find out SU replaced the AKM chip with the TI chip that has much lower SINAD specs. So now we see good results from the 4800, 70 and the 40, and some of us bound to wonder why, it is totally on topic imo but I will comply with your request.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

You can purchase Dirac Live and Dirac Live Bass Control (DLBC) for this unit at:

Marantz CINEMA 40 – Dirac

Dirac Live for Marantz CINEMA 40 Get your license

www.dirac.com

Currently DLBC is 30% off until Jan 15, 2024.

You can also compare all DLBC capable AVRs in my comparison thread. See signature.

The question is whether it will be upgradable to ART when available.

 

[Spocko]

Other than aesthetic appeal, I cannot imagine its performance as a home theater AVR is audibly different than a Denon with similar specs (like Dirac) but costing a whole lot less. AVRs are not designed to be high precision sound systems (Benchmark AHB2 comes to mind) but rather meant to deliver an immersive and impactful movie experience by effectively delivering the surround experience of the source.

 

[sweetchaos]

The question is whether it will be upgradable to ART when available.

I asked this question, but got no response from the guy who's got the insider info about Denon/Marantz.