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Schiit Magni 3+ and Heresy Headphone Amp Reviews

LegionOfHell

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On Schiit's website, it is said that at 300 ohms the amp's power output is 410mW RMS per channel ... but this review says max power at 300 ohms is 274mW ??? Can someone explain why this is ?
 

trl

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I am checking https://www.schiit.com/public/upload/PDF/Schiit Amp APx555 Standard Test Suite_ Magni Heresy.pdf and let's compare with Amir's graphs:

Heresy_300_Ohms.jpg

Heresy @ 300 Ohms - a bit over 10V RMS (> 340 mWatts) @ 0.0005% THD


index.php

273 mW @ 0.000439 % THD


Heresy_33_Ohms.png

Heresy @ 33 Ohms - a bit over 8V RMS (> 2 Watts) @ 0.001% THD


index.php

2.374 W @ 0.0014 % THD
Unless I'm wrongly interpreting Schiit or Amir's measurements, it seems that for 33 Ohms load the two measurements seems identical, but for 300 Ohms load some differences arise.
 

solderdude

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Unless I'm wrongly interpreting Schiit or Amir's measurements, it seems that for 33 Ohms load the two measurements seems identical, but for 300 Ohms load some differences arise.

There is 1dB difference between the 300 ohm measurements at the onset of increased distortion between Schiit and Amir's measurements at 300ohm.
It would appear that the one Amir tested could reach 9V in 300ohm where the one Schiit tested could reach 10V in 300 ohm

Let's analyze.
The max output voltage of the used opamps as well as the voltage rails determine the max output voltage.
There is one opamp for gain (OPA1662) and some opamps in unity gain as power buffers (OPA1688)

Data sheet shows that at the knee where distortion starts to climb the output top voltage is Vs -0.7V for the OPA1688
Data sheet shows that at the knee where distortion starts to climb the output top voltage is Vs -3.7V for the OPA1662 (THD+N measurement)
Using SMPTE / DIN: Two −Tone 4:1, 60 Hz and 7 KHz test = Vs-1.6V
Vs = power supply rail voltage.

This means the output devices won't contribute to the max output voltage swing so the OPA1662's voltage rail determines the output voltage.
To reach 9V you will need 16.4V rail voltage.
To reach 10V you will need 17.8V rail voltage.
The rail voltage is determined by 2 resistors of the regulators so can easily be changed by selecting different resistors.

So.. my best guess would be the Schiit tested device was probably a prototype where the rail voltage was closer +/-18V.
On the PCB it states power supply voltage = 17V so perhaps the production models have a power supply rail voltage closer to +/- 17V which then would explain the 1V difference in output voltage.

The power in the 30ohm load is not determined by the rail voltage in this amp but output current limited (OPA1688 + series resistor voltage drop) so will be the same despite the voltage rails being slightly different.

As Amir got a production run model I would trust Amir's measurements over the ones taken by Schiit. These could be obtained during prototyping.

On Schiit's website, it is said that at 300 ohms the amp's power output is 410mW RMS per channel ... but this review says max power at 300 ohms is 274mW ??? Can someone explain why this is ?

Max power rating on the schiit website:
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 410mW RMS per channel

The trick here is that distortion isn't mentioned. When looking at Amir's measurements we can see that the 410mW is reached but at 0.02% distortion. So there is no disagreement about output power at all. Both measure 410mW in 300 ohm but Amir shows the value at the onset of clipping.
Of course, we cannot hear 0.02% distortion when our headphones, at those levels are doing much worse at those voltage levels.

So there is no discrepancy there.
 

LegionOfHell

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Ok So the Schiit's power ratings are correct ? I am going to open a thread and ask the same question about liquid spark...please answer that too..
 

Phosphenetre

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How's the volume pot on the Heresy? Clean, smooth and noise free? Channel balance consistent across units?
 

solderdude

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Channel balance consistent across units?

It won't be with 100% certainty because it is a small mechanical component. You get what you pay for. You want better L-R matching then you need to buy an amp with relay or stepper volume control.
 

trl

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So.. my best guess would be the Schiit tested device was probably a prototype where the rail voltage was closer +/-18V.
I was kinda thinking same way and want it to ask Amir about the voltage and current of the PSU used. Now wondering if anyone else has a Heresy and is willing to test at what output V RMS the distortion knee appears.
 

LegionOfHell

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Is IEMagni better than Heresy ? According to the specs on Schiit's website, IEMagni has better IMD and SNR....
 

somebodyelse

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Is IEMagni better than Heresy ? According to the specs on Schiit's website, IEMagni has better IMD and SNR....
The AP reports give more detail. From a quick look it seems the IEMagni is generally as good as or slightly better than the Heresy, with an extra gain setting to make it more suitable for IEMs. Whether it's worth the extra $20 probably depends on your use case.
 

LegionOfHell

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The AP reports give more detail. From a quick look it seems the IEMagni is generally as good as or slightly better than the Heresy, with an extra gain setting to make it more suitable for IEMs. Whether it's worth the extra $20 probably depends on your use case.

I don't have any IEMs and I don't have any plans to buy any...I also own a Heresy....does it make sense to upgrade to IEMagni because of its better IMD and SNR specs ?
 

Zensō

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I don't have any IEMs and I don't have any plans to buy any...I also own a Heresy....does it make sense to upgrade to IEMagni because of its better IMD and SNR specs ?
In my opinion, no. Both are audibly transparent.
 

maverickronin

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I don't have any IEMs and I don't have any plans to buy any...I also own a Heresy....does it make sense to upgrade to IEMagni because of its better IMD and SNR specs ?

If you have problems with channel balance with any of your more sensitive 'phones on the Magni the lower gain setting on the IEMagni can help you get the pot to a more linear range.
 

Spcysls

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Can low gain on the Hersey drive an HD650 to its full potential? Thats the only way I’d take advantage of the transparency with that high SINAD score I assume.
 

solderdude

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Can low gain on the Hersey drive an HD650 to its full potential?

Only when you have a DAC with an unusual high output voltage.
I see no reason not to use high gain with a 2V out DAC though.

Thats the only way I’d take advantage of the transparency with that high SINAD score I assume.

Most certainly not.
SINAD has nothing to do with this.
 

Spcysls

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I’m getting the Hersey in the mail in a week or so along with the modi 3+ so I haven’t tested it yet but I want to know how to configure it properly to get the least distortion while getting the most performance. As for the SINAD, Amir mentioned that it drops below 99 in high gain on the magni 3 and drops substantially more on the Hersey so that had me worried about using high gain.
 

solderdude

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Usage is very simple.
Set the amp on low gain and whenever you reached the end of the volpot and want to go louder switch to high gain.
There is nothing more to it.

No need to worry about SINAD, noise, distortion, channel separation, output resistance, frequency response, rise time etc.
It is all below any audible levels with music and the HD650 in all settings.
 
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chad2

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A big take-away from this is that discrete implementation need not suck. So often we see performance of a good DAC ruined by discrete stage. Likely with low feedback.

do you have any plans on measuring the preamp section? or would it measure the same?
 

chad2

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I’m getting the Hersey in the mail in a week or so along with the modi 3+ so I haven’t tested it yet but I want to know how to configure it properly to get the least distortion while getting the most performance. As for the SINAD, Amir mentioned that it drops below 99 in high gain on the magni 3 and drops substantially more on the Hersey so that had me worried about using high gain.

i have the hersey hooked to an ASC200 dual mono blocks with 4 sony sscs5's and i run low gain full volume because when i run high gain half volume the sound is very unnaturally high, which is already a slight problem with the sony's so that could just be an issue in my system.
 

Theriverlethe

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I just purchased a Magni 3+B off Amazon. Schiit has really come a long way with these compared to a Magni 2 Uber I have lying around. No more sharp metal edges and the rubber feet use holes stamped into the unit instead of stick-on glue. The rubber feet also have some of the best grip I've seen. My unit has the upgraded volume knob from IEMagni but it's the discrete transistor version. However, I was surprised that Magni 3+ runs much cooler than Magni 2 Uber.

@T.M.Noble Is Schiit planning to replace all black volume knobs with this extruded aluminum version?
 
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