Topping D50 III Balanced DAC with EQ Review

[Sokel]

@amirm , I noticed that the use of EQ increases the noise in a random way, as in sometimes there's additional measured noise & sometimes not (in terms of over time). As you mentioned the measured noise increases are not audible, but I'm wondering if the noise increases may get significantly worse when linking together a number of fairly complicated & overlapping EQ filters (which is what you do in headphone EQ)? It seems to me that the implementation of the filters in the device is not 100% optimised then if it's creating "random noise". I would suppose that software implementations of Parametric Filters like Roon / Neutron Player / Equaliser APO may currently have an advantage over Toppings current implementation as I'm assuming those software implementations wouldn't be injecting additional noise.

My take on the review: it's great to see Topping getting into the EQ game! I'd like to see per channel EQ options as that's even useful for headphone owners, albeit only if they've measured their headphone, because then you can integrate a channel matching EQ to balance each driver "perfectly" throughout the frequency range.

What I have seen measuring filters like that (the miniDSP Flex that I returned) is that the noise increases as we go lower in freq.
Number of filters doesn't help either.

There's a thread about it but gathering info after that it seems that many suffer the same and only top implementations like RME's seem to solve it.

 

[alekksander]

great. now please integrate "five star" headphone amp with plug detection, volume memory per output, eq presets switchable by physical button or auto per output and good warranty. all this to compete with rme. oh, and the acceptable design, but you guys got this one for a time now (d30pro being best looking topping dac so far). here are my $555 – hope to hear from you soon.

 

[Palladium]

Just received my unit. Updating the firmware from 1.20 to 1.21 from USB on Windows 10 was a breeze and mostly idiot-proof from Topping's site.

Smaller than expected and the CNC finishing is godlike.

However, one thing I don't like is screen on auto mode no longer completely shuts off the screen (unlike the D50s which do)...I hope Topping can fix this with another firmware upgrade.

The BT remote is also definitely a downgrade from the older IR remote in usability from my POV.

 

[DSJR]

One good thing about this new model irrespective of the great bench performance is that previous models may start to appear for sale at good (for the likes of me) used prices...

 

[perdido34]

Topping Tune aside, Is this unit going to be an audible improvement over its predecessor, the D50s? Of course not.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Topping (and similar such as SMSL. et al.) makes excellence, routine, downright boring.. Yawn, another excellent Topping, this one however with EQ. 2 of these and .. one can start quite some Room-level EQ... for "pas cher", and better performance than the usual miniDSP of these world. On this I would like to add this to this exchange:
but this @MacClintock post

Nice, send some shivers down the spine of RME.

elcited this from
This reply from @Sokel

Nope,the quality of RME's filters is still out of reach by these companies,including miniDSP which makes stuff like this for a long time.

In what ways are the filters from RME superior and why these are out of reach of companies like Topping that have proven they understand a thing or two about engineering and manufacturing? Sincerely would like to learn, to understand.

Peace.

 

[dasdoing]

But is the EQ directly written into the DSP or is it just a software EQ?
If it's just software, it's basically eAPO with extra steps.

well, if it had an extra DSP chip (like Motu has f.e.) it wouldn't be limited to USB input. It's included in the driver it seems. So an EqAPO-ish addon in the driver

 

[Sokel]

Hi

Topping (and similar such as SNSL. et al.) makes excellence, routine, downright boring.. Yawn, another excellent Topping, this one however with EQ. 2 of these and .. one can start quite some Room-level EQ... for "pas cher", and better performance than the usual miniDSP of these world. On this I would like to add this to this exchange:
but this @MacClintock post

elcited this from
This reply from @Sokel


In what ways are the filters from RME superior and why these are out of reach of companies like Topping that have proven they understand a thing or two about engineering and manufacturing? Sincerely would like to learn, to unedrstand.

Peace.

You can see the difference here as an example:

Topping EQ:




RME EQ



(from this thread where it also mentions a similar Bluesound problem)

You can also see it here (where it was the cause for a partial fix and it's a really good read down the thread as it addresses lots of aspects)

 

[SloPoke]

Does the USB-C socket on the back mean you can connect a USB-C iPhone to it and use the phone as the music source?

Yes, just tested the USB-C input on the back of the D50 III by connecting my iPhone 15 Pro with a USB-C cable.

Interesting that the D50 III was getting powered by the iPhone and so looks like this is a large, but fully portable DAC. The D50 III has a dedicated USB-C input for power, but I disconnected this before plugging the iPhone into the USB-C data input.

Also of note is that the D50 III switched automatically from COAX input to USB when I plugged in the iPhone

How does this work with an older iPhone or iPad that uses Lightning connector rather than USB-C? That I don't know yet.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

RCA performance is not as fantastic as usual:
just saying . . . .
On a different note:
- If they could incorporate their EQ profiles into popular players, such as Jriver & Roon, then one could setup individual EQs for individual tracks, or locations (such as living room, office).
That would be the cherry on top.

 

[threni]

What I have seen measuring filters like that (the miniDSP Flex that I returned) is that the noise increases as we go lower in freq.
Number of filters doesn't help either.

There's a thread about it but gathering info after that it seems that many suffer the same and only top implementations like RME's seem to solve it.

It would useful if there were perhaps a suite of PEQ tests with a mixture of normal and pathological cases. It would be interesting to compare, say, this implementation with what you get on other devices/software.

 

[danadam]

Not necessary.

For example, take a look at Wooting and their https://wootility.io/ web tool with which you can configure their keyboard via USB.

It may store settings on usb device but I'm pretty sure the webapp itself still has to be loaded over the network or from local files of the device that's running the browser.

 

[Sokel]

It would useful if there were perhaps a suite of PEQ tests with a mixture of normal and pathological cases. It would be interesting to compare, say, this implementation with what you get on other devices/software.

From what I have seen there's a lot at play.
The informed opinions vary from the DSP chip itself,to the computational power,the gain structure,the filter implementation (which sounds like a fine art with lots of trade-ins),etc.
I sincerely gave up,way above my pay grade.

A similar test is in the @mdsimon2 's thread I posted above,where various devices exhibit different behavior.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I believe the coaxial jack on the WiiM Pro Plus is only an output. Otherwise, I agree. The WiiM Pro Plus is attractive because its' output has measured as nearly as transparent with parametric EQ that can be applied to ALL the inputs.

edit : duplicate

Of course, my mistake. Many thanks for correcting me - I've edited the post.

The point remains...

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I'm still at a loss as to why there's no option for a subwoofer out. As we've seen with the WiiM Amp, it can be done cheaply, and with no loss in quality.

The ability to set the crossover in the digital domain is already provided by the PEQ system, and how much does an extra RCA out cost?

 

[AM88]

Yes, just tested the USB-C input on the back of the D50 III by connecting my iPhone 15 Pro with a USB-C cable.

Interesting that the D50 III was getting powered by the iPhone and so looks like this is a large, but fully portable DAC. The D50 III has a dedicated USB-C input for power, but I disconnected this before plugging the iPhone into the USB-C data input.

Also of note is that the D50 III switched automatically from COAX input to USB when I plugged in the iPhone

How does this work with an older iPhone or iPad that uses Lightning connector rather than USB-C? That I don't know yet.

Thanks for the info. Unbelievable that a phone can power it !

 

[CedarX]

I'm still at a loss as to why there's no option for a subwoofer out. As we've seen with the WiiM Amp, it can be done cheaply, and with no loss in quality.

The ability to set the crossover in the digital domain is already provided by the PEQ system, and how much does an extra RCA out cost?

If the crossover is provided in the (digital) domain, it costs another separate DAC chip…

 

[Sokel]

I'm still at a loss as to why there's no option for a subwoofer out. As we've seen with the WiiM Amp, it can be done cheaply, and with no loss in quality.

The ability to set the crossover in the digital domain is already provided by the PEQ system, and how much does an extra RCA out cost?

You can get an EX2x4 interface for that if you're searching at that price range.

 

[roog]

Very neat, pity I read that its USB input only if you want to use the PEQ.
Good price too.

 

[DLS79]

If the crossover is provided in the (digital) domain, it costs another separate DAC chip…

You also need the physical space on the chassis for the ports!

I'm not sure enough people appreciate how much work goes into stuffing so much functionality into such a small package!