NAD M10 Streaming Amplifier Review

[pogo]

Should I set crossover to something like 100-120Hz to reduce localization of the bass?

In your case, you should do it this way. From my experience it should not be above 50-60Hz for stereo!
With high probability the DL full version would have an advantage for you.

Click here for Harman Target Curves!

 

[vagon76]

my nad m10 doesn't control kef r3 well enough, even though I've read otherwise on the forums. perhaps kef r3 are too tight because they are new and you need to stretch the speakers well. I previously drew attention to the hypex nc252mp module inside the m10. I also found out that there is a nc502mp module twice as powerful, and the same set of cables is used to integrate these boards. That is, it turns out that it is theoretically possible to disconnect the 252 module and connect the 502 module, which will significantly increase the ability of the m10 to control complex speaker systems. of course, the 502 module is larger and simply won’t fit inside the m10 on, but it’s quite possible to try to reconnect all cables from the m10 preamplifier board to the 502 board. Has anyone tried to do this? I'm not a big expert in radio engineering, but it seems to me that it is quite possible.

 

[pablolie]

my nad m10 doesn't control kef r3 well enough, even though I've read otherwise on the forums. perhaps kef r3 are too tight because they are new and you need to stretch the speakers well. I previously drew attention to the hypex nc252mp module inside the m10. I also found out that there is a nc502mp module twice as powerful, and the same set of cables is used to integrate these boards. That is, it turns out that it is theoretically possible to disconnect the 252 module and connect the 502 module, which will significantly increase the ability of the m10 to control complex speaker systems. of course, the 502 module is larger and simply won’t fit inside the m10 on, but it’s quite possible to try to reconnect all cables from the m10 preamplifier board to the 502 board. Has anyone tried to do this? I'm not a big expert in radio engineering, but it seems to me that it is quite possible.

I am not a DIYer but have read application notes my entire life. Are the power elements compatible? Is the footprint the same? Are the cooling needs identical? Most importantly - is the exercise worth your time? I *have* spent half a day fixing electronics here and there, but it is only and exclusively when someone is really broken and there is no alternative. One of the most "bleh" things to me is to spend a lot of time doing something only to discover I wasted a lot of time...

I'd say if you want DIY, research kits designed for that. Recent NAD stuff has quite complex and highly integrated SMT boards, plus they always claim to pour some magic dust and proprietary optimization into stuff that has Hypex in it. I once opened a D7050 and completely obliterated it...

 

[Kachda]

my nad m10 doesn't control kef r3 well enough, even though I've read otherwise on the forums. perhaps kef r3 are too tight because they are new and you need to stretch the speakers well. I previously drew attention to the hypex nc252mp module inside the m10. I also found out that there is a nc502mp module twice as powerful, and the same set of cables is used to integrate these boards. That is, it turns out that it is theoretically possible to disconnect the 252 module and connect the 502 module, which will significantly increase the ability of the m10 to control complex speaker systems. of course, the 502 module is larger and simply won’t fit inside the m10 on, but it’s quite possible to try to reconnect all cables from the m10 preamplifier board to the 502 board. Has anyone tried to do this? I'm not a big expert in radio engineering, but it seems to me that it is quite possible.

I don’t know what you mean by “stretching the speaker”. But if you need more power why not run the m10 as a preamp and connect a powerful power amp to it outside? That way you don’t have to mess around inside

 

[pogo]

my nad m10 doesn't control kef r3 well enough

Why should the M10 have too insufficient power!? See also here: Link
How far is your input signal controlled at the M10 (digital VU meter)?
How is it when you deactivate Dirac Live?

 

[vagon76]

Why should the M10 have too insufficient power!? See also here: Link
How far is your input signal controlled at the M10 (digital VU meter)?
How is it when you deactivate Dirt

Why should the M10 have too insufficient power!? See also here: Link
How far is your input signal controlled at the M10 (digital VU meter)?
How is it when you deactivate Dirac Live?

thank you for the link. I saw there very low damping-factor of the m10. I didn't use anything except tidal, spotify and usb-hdd with my music library. By the way, I read that kef r3 need some about 100 hours of "burn play" with some special tracks of tara-labs or audioenginners tracks to warm up subwoofers and boxes. Now I hear that kef r3 sounds better.... they played near 30 hours after depacking

 

[vagon76]

is anybode used m10 with kef r3?

 

[SIY]

I saw there very low damping-factor of the m10.

That's not really true. Remember that once DF exceeds ten or so, its effect is in the hundredths of a decibel range.

 

[pogo]

I saw there very low damping-factor of the m10.

The DF is determined at STEREO under approximately real operating conditions at 4ohms.
Such measurements are performed with a 1m long cable with a gauge of 1.5 square millimeters, i.e. close to reality, which should also take into account longer cables with higher gauges.
A not bridged AHB2 (bridges halves the amp DF!) is worse in this respect: Link
Here is an interesting article on the influence on the frequency response in steady state: Link

 

[SIY]

The DF is determined at STEREO under approximately real operating conditions at 4ohms.
Such measurements are performed with a 1m long cable with a gauge of 1.5 square millimeters, i.e. close to reality, which should also take into account longer cables with higher gauges.
A not bridged AHB2 (bridges halves the DF!) is worse in this respect: Link
Here is an interesting article on the influence on the frequency response in steady state: Link

I understand that you have an obsession about this, but that doesn't mean that you should be misleading people. John makes great amplifiers, but is not above using some FUD to sell them. Use 0.01 ohm as the source impedance in his demonstration (the NAD is somewhat lower than that) and see what happens.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I understand that you have an obsession about this, but that doesn't mean that you should be misleading people. John makes great amplifiers, but is not above using some FUD to sell them. Use 0.01 ohm as the source impedance in his demonstration (the NAD is somewhat lower than that) and see what happens.

I think the math checks out, no? He specifically uses a DF of 10 to prove its not enough if you don't want attenuation in certain frequencies.

 

[SIY]

I think the math checks out, no? He specifically uses a DF of 10 to prove its not enough if you don't want attenuation in certain frequencies.

Yes and no. He chooses a particularly egregious edge case, then adds in an unrealistically low cable resistance.

He did something similar with crossover distortion. That's a little sad because the amps are great and there's no need to do these sorts of tricks.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Yes and no. He chooses a particularly egregious edge case, then adds in an unrealistically low cable resistance.

He did something similar with crossover distortion. That's a little sad because the amps are great and there's no need to do these sorts of tricks.

Low cable resistance. -You mean high, no?
IR to edge case, as I read the first example (on the phone so haven't read it all) isn't it also kind of his point in case to prove that 10 DF is not sufficient?

 

[SIY]

Low cable resistance. -You mean high, no?
IR to edge case, as I read the first example (on the phone so haven't read it all) isn't it also kind of his point in case to prove that 10 DF is not sufficient?

No, unrealistically low. For most real-world runs of wire and engineered amplifiers, the wire DCR will dominate over amp source impedance.

One other little "trick" is using 8R as the numerator rather than the loudspeaker's nominal impedance. This ambiguity in the DF definition is the reason why source impedance is the best way to characterize this amplifier property. In this case, the M10's source impedance is below 10 milliohms. The real limitation is likely to be power- I've certainly driven mine into clipping without a lot of effort.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

No, unrealistically low. For most real-world runs of wire and engineered amplifiers, the wire DCR will dominate over amp source impedance.

One other little "trick" is using 8R as the numerator rather than the loudspeaker's nominal impedance. This ambiguity in the DF definition is the reason why source impedance is the best way to characterize this amplifier property. In this case, the M10's source impedance is below 10 milliohms. The real limitation is likely to be power- I've certainly driven mine into clipping without a lot of effort.

I don't know man.. I just read all his examples (Benchmark) and it looks to me like it checks out fine.

I would need to see parallel calculations with his base values and base values which you deem the correct ones if I must learn something new from it.

 

[pogo]

That's a little sad

The short paragraph on '7.4.3 Damping factor' (click read more) is sufficient to understand how complex the theory can be and I think this one is closer to reality than the consideration of benchmark in the steady state: Link

-> In reality with transient signals, each turn of the voice coil couples individually and proportionately, so the resistance is distributed!

 

[vagon76]

the answer to my question is an awful acoustic in the room. l listened kef r3 with all my amplifiers in perfect prepared room and nad m10, bryston 3b, mf a3 dual mono integrated amplifier was very good with the kef r3. the best result was with additional power amplifier yamaha mx-1 on the bass of kef r3 and one of my amplifiers on treble/middle

 

[mr-audio]

Well just a note to say my NAD M10 V2 died after only 17 months service. Used nearly every day but at low volumes only. Weirdly, it decided to die after 2 days of full power off. I had shut it down while i was away from the office. Came back and hit the power button on back and all it will do is power to the RED led state which supposedly mean protection mode. (BTW nothing odd happened while I was gone, no power outages or glitches.) Tried the various obvious actions including the hard factory reset. Nothing worked. Glad I bought thru a good Audio store and they are handling the warranty replacement. But geez, 1.5 yrs of low power use and it dies? Caveat Emptor.

 

[Sal1950]

But geez, 1.5 yrs of low power use and it dies? Caveat Emptor.

Bummer, that really sucks from such a relatively expensive component.
Glad to hear it will be covered but that doesn't really make it hurt much less.
Best of luck going forward.

 

[pablolie]

Well just a note to say my NAD M10 V2 died after only 17 months service. Used nearly every day but at low volumes only. Weirdly, it decided to die after 2 days of full power off. I had shut it down while i was away from the office. Came back and hit the power button on back and all it will do is power to the RED led state which supposedly mean protection mode. (BTW nothing odd happened while I was gone, no power outages or glitches.) Tried the various obvious actions including the hard factory reset. Nothing worked. Glad I bought thru a good Audio store and they are handling the warranty replacement. But geez, 1.5 yrs of low power use and it dies? Caveat Emptor.

I have traditionally loved NAD, but yes - I currently mistrust their longevity. The touch buttons are the worst idea ever. And I have several devices (including the M series) suffer from quality issues. They *really* have some work to do on reliability. And killing those touch buttons would help, as a start.