Tekton M-Lore Speaker Review

[ampguy]

WTF???

Amirite???

 

[Everett T]

Here is where I believe the main disconnect is - Amir and Erin like accurate flat response speakers. The m lores are not designed to be, there used to be or is a model called the lore reference that was supposedly accurate, but less preferred by some to the response of the m lore. Amir doesn’t like a lot of things like the original Kef ls-50s, but likes the metas. Most I know who own or listen to both can eq the ls50s to sound the same, or prefer the ogs. Sean olive and Harmon have their favorite non linear tweaks, why can’t Tekton have theirs? Amir, why not just show the data, and let the readers decide? Why the I recommend, or I don’t recommend comments, when surely you are aware others have different hearing preferences than you? When did buying an AP and Klippel become the “I am now the god of what gear is good, and what is crap?”

The measurements don't lie regardless of one's subjective feelings about a speaker. Maybe, and hear me out, Eric doesn't design speakers as well as he thinks he does and even if the reviewer didn't find it bad, Eric expects reviewers to only give extremely glowing reviews or otherwise everyone else is incompetent.

 

[Doodski]

Eric expects reviewers to only give extremely glowing reviews or otherwise everyone else is incompetent.

... and he attempts to pull rank.

 

[Somafunk]

Here is where I believe the main disconnect is - Amir and Erin like accurate flat response speakers. The m lores are not designed to be, there used to be or is a model called the lore reference that was supposedly accurate, but less preferred by some to the response of the m lore. Amir doesn’t like a lot of things like the original Kef ls-50s, but likes the metas. Most I know who own or listen to both can eq the ls50s to sound the same, or prefer the ogs. Sean olive and Harmon have their favorite non linear tweaks, why can’t Tekton have theirs? Amir, why not just show the data, and let the readers decide? Why the I recommend, or I don’t recommend comments, when surely you are aware others have different hearing preferences than you? When did buying an AP and Klippel become the “I am now the god of what gear sounds good, and what gear will sound like crap?”

What dafuq is that ^

 

[USER]

Amirite???

NO!

 

[Jim Taylor]

Here is where I believe the main disconnect is - Amir and Erin like accurate flat response speakers. The m lores are not designed to be, there used to be or is a model called the lore reference that was supposedly accurate, but less preferred by some to the response of the m lore. Amir doesn’t like a lot of things like the original Kef ls-50s, but likes the metas. Most I know who own or listen to both can eq the ls50s to sound the same, or prefer the ogs. Sean olive and Harmon have their favorite non linear tweaks, why can’t Tekton have theirs? Amir, why not just show the data, and let the readers decide? Why the I recommend, or I don’t recommend comments, when surely you are aware others have different hearing preferences than you? When did buying an AP and Klippel become the “I am now the god of what gear sounds good, and what gear will sound like crap?”

When did childish, petulant remarks become worthwhile commentary?

Jim

 

[pablolie]

Here is where I believe the main disconnect is - Amir and Erin like accurate flat response speakers. The m lores are not designed to be, there used to be or is a model called the lore reference that was supposedly accurate, but less preferred by some to the response of the m lore. Amir doesn’t like a lot of things like the original Kef ls-50s, but likes the metas. Most I know who own or listen to both can eq the ls50s to sound the same, or prefer the ogs. Sean olive and Harmon have their favorite non linear tweaks, why can’t Tekton have theirs? Amir, why not just show the data, and let the readers decide? Why the I recommend, or I don’t recommend comments, when surely you are aware others have different hearing preferences than you? When did buying an AP and Klippel become the “I am now the god of what gear sounds good, and what gear will sound like crap?”

That would explain a hohum subjective personal opinion of the speakers, but not the disconnect in measurements though. And this ended up in a train wreck because of measurements, no the recommendation (I think).

I could do without the subjective "recommendation" in reviews, because this site also provides enough resources to educate oneself about the nature and relevance of measurements, and whether they matter to users' way of deploying the gear, if one reads between the lines.

I think the disconnect is simply in the fact other publications always find something nice to say about any product they review in the end. ASR provides great measurements, but on occasion the final subjective recommendation - which can be harsh- is not always consistent.

But now I regret posting this, because I stated earlier I don't want to add to a topic with lawyerish crap involved in it. I repeat - my support for ASR is unquestioned.

 

[amirm]

Here is where I believe the main disconnect is - Amir and Erin like accurate flat response speakers. The m lores are not designed to be, there used to be or is a model called the lore reference that was supposedly accurate, but less preferred by some to the response of the m lore. Amir doesn’t like a lot of things like the original Kef ls-50s, but likes the metas. Most I know who own or listen to both can eq the ls50s to sound the same, or prefer the ogs. Sean olive and Harmon have their favorite non linear tweaks, why can’t Tekton have theirs? Amir, why not just show the data, and let the readers decide? Why the I recommend, or I don’t recommend comments, when surely you are aware others have different hearing preferences than you? When did buying an AP and Klippel become the “I am now the god of what gear sounds good, and what gear will sound like crap?”

That is not at all the disconnect let alone the "main one." Eric made that statement when he came here and that was that. Problem didn't occur until out of the blue he accused me of measuring things incorrectly. That has been the issue at hand. He claims measurements are wrong, threatens me legally but never produces his own measurements. And for nearly a month, he didn't even tell me why he thinks my measurements are wrong.

The Klippel and AP's role is to product reliable, repeatable measurements. I provide an interpretation based on years of research and knowledge of what is good and what is bad. Members can take the same data and decide otherwise. And comment otherwise. Some value my recommendations, some don't. That is OK too.

 

[kemmler3D]

I honestly believe he does not have any measurements for any of his speakers, ever. I think he does have some kind of simulation software that will forecast how the speakers will measure, then he just builds it and then do some crossover tuning by ear.

He even stated it on this Stereophile interview.

View attachment 364036

EDIT: Link: https://www.stereophile.com/content...50-models-and-counting-interview-tektons-eric

I don't even think that's a terrible way to go about it, if you and your customers are happy with potentially-technically-imperfect speakers. Which lots of people seem to be. It's a common and valid point of view to say one prefers ears-based design than a technically perfect speaker. Full disclosure - I've done a bit of voicing by ear in my day. The results were fine. I will always use the measurement gear at my disposal, but I won't tell someone with 250 ear-tuned speaker designs under their belt that their ears are worthless, either.

I wouldn't trade my Genelecs for anything Tekton makes, but some people may feel the opposite, and that's fine.

Which just makes this whole episode all the more bizarre. Eric has plenty of happy customers, none of whom (I assume) are clamoring for him to start using a Klippel. Why take this horrible, reputation-destroying detour just to call out measurements that weren't even that bad to begin with and that nobody really cared about in the first place?

 

[rdenney]

Here is where I believe the main disconnect is - Amir and Erin like accurate flat response speakers. The m lores are not designed to be, there used to be or is a model called the lore reference that was supposedly accurate, but less preferred by some to the response of the m lore. Amir doesn’t like a lot of things like the original Kef ls-50s, but likes the metas. Most I know who own or listen to both can eq the ls50s to sound the same, or prefer the ogs. Sean olive and Harmon have their favorite non linear tweaks, why can’t Tekton have theirs? Amir, why not just show the data, and let the readers decide? Why the I recommend, or I don’t recommend comments, when surely you are aware others have different hearing preferences than you? When did buying an AP and Klippel become the “I am now the god of what gear sounds good, and what gear will sound like crap?”

Then why were they described by the manufacturer as "extra-linear"? And why the harassment? If he never intended them to have a flat response, he could just say so instead of attacking everything in sight because it revealed that they are not, in fact, "extra-linear."

This is a common issue with boutique audio, and has been for quite a while. People ask why we care that someone's amp or speakers are not good on the bench when they are (supposedly) good on the ears? Why can't we let those poor inventors give us products they think sound better than flat response with near-zero measured distortion? Here's why: They claim that their amps and speakers are uniquely true to the music and that they alone have finally solved the problem of this distortion or that distortion. They simply refuse to own that their products might not measure well because they weren't designed to measure well.

It's the deception that's the problem.

Rick "making claims apparently without evidence" Denney

 

[mglobe]

In my opinion, this thread has gone all the distance it can go. If it were my choice I would close it and leave it as one of several records of what had transpired.

 

[kemmler3D]

They simply refuse to own that their products might not measure well because they weren't designed to measure well.

It's the deception that's the problem.

This is really it in a nutshell.

From the boutique manufacturer's point of view, I think this is all motivated by fear of losing sales because the brand's reputation isn't established enough to stand up without making claims of technical superiority.

B&W, Bose, etc can sell thousands of units without a care because their brands are strong enough that nobody bothers to look up the frequency plots. Boutique brands that have to compete on their merits want credit for technical superiority while also being colored. This puts them in an awkward position where they claim "extra linear" or something like that, but when it comes to light that their products don't measure "well", they have to dispute the specific measurement, or the concept of measurements in general, while still claiming they believe in certain tenets of linear performance.

In Eric's case, I just can't figure out why he felt the need to do that in these specific instances.

 

[Doodski]

In my opinion, this thread has gone all the distance it can go. If it were my choice I would close it and leave it as one of several records of what had transpired.

If you read all of the 2 threads you would know the threads remain open for the possibility that Eric may comment here. The line of communication remains open.

 

[Ken1951]

In my opinion, this thread has gone all the distance it can go. If it were my choice I would close it and leave it as one of several records of what had transpired.

Problem is Tek-not boy refuses to just leave well enough alone and hope the noise - created by him - dies down. Which of course ti won't if he keeps playing the fool.

 

[mglobe]

If you read all of the 2 threads you would know the threads remain open for the possibility that Eric may comment here. The line of communication remains open.

And that is a good thing?

 

[mglobe]

Problem is Tek-not boy refuses to just leave well enough alone and hope the noise - created by him - dies down. Which of course ti won't if he keeps playing the fool.

So close it as an act of mercy.

 

[kemmler3D]

And that is a good thing?

It's the high road-ish approach, and it cuts off any notion that ASR wouldn't be open to dialogue in principle.

 

[Doodski]

And that is a good thing?

For some it is a major irritation. For ASR the powers that be determined the line of communication will remain open.

 

[pablolie]

If you read all of the 2 threads you would know the threads remain open for the possibility that Eric may comment here. The line of communication remains open.

I doubt that. It is open in personal email threads that gets published here and there. Clearly Tekton will no comment on any of these threads. The ASR community has one-sidedly communicated and perpetuated their combined hostility to Tekton, whether it helps or doesn't help the case. Why would they come here?

Do not ever get me wrong - I am in no way an apologist for the clear missteps in the way this was approached by Tekton. That said, I don't think the build-up in hostility here is helping things chill.

I posted early on in this thread I neither thought the speakers were horrible at the price point, and that I'd rather see their models with multi arrays tested (because I'd say that was the only thing that made me take note of Tekton). This speaker that drove all this crap seems completely immaterial and irrelevant. It's (a) ancient (b) not something I'd ever consider and (c) doesn't seem to truly express what Tekton tried to differentiate itself with.

Bizarre.

 

[ampguy]

That is not at all the disconnect let alone the "main one." Eric made that statement when he came here and that was that. Problem didn't occur until out of the blue he accused me of measuring things incorrectly. That has been the issue at hand. He claims measurements are wrong, threatens me legally but never produces his own measurements. And for nearly a month, he didn't even tell me why he thinks my measurements are wrong.

The Klippel and AP's role is to product reliable, repeatable measurements. I provide an interpretation based on years of research and knowledge of what is good and what is bad. Members can take the same data and decide otherwise. And comment otherwise. Some value my recommendations, some don't. That is OK too.

I can agree with you that it may not be the main one, but in my opinion it is a disconnect. Eric’s communications and litigation threats were wrong, and he owes you an apology, and also clarification on why he thinks you may have measured wrongly.

But in other speaker reviews, you have found the point to measure based on where the expected response matched best, so I’m curious (for my own reasons of owning a pair of these) in where that position is. I’m hoping you could tell me that the optimum axis is a certain spot of those 34” so I could try that listening level at home.