WiiM Mini Streamer

[nerone]

Hello everyone, could you tell me if this unit transmits Tidal HiFi plus by connecting it directly to the amplifier or do you need an external dac?
Thank you

 

[Music1969]

Very few routers support DoT at that time. Mine does not, even though it is a 3 years old model, still supported with firmware updates.

My Asus RT-AC86U is now considered old too but fortunately has some good features.

Although it appears this good feature might be bad with WiiM Mini - specifically with Alexa casting.

Maybe it's an Alexa casting issue

 

[Merifon]

Hello everyone, could you tell me if this unit transmits Tidal HiFi plus by connecting it directly to the amplifier or do you need an external dac?
Thank you

yes, it has an analog line output.
However, an external dac, even a cheap one will do better (for sure)

 

[Brantome]

Very few routers support DoT at that time. Mine does not, even though it is a 3 years old model, still supported with firmware updates.

Mine doesn’t have that setting either (Netgear r8000)

 

[nerone]

yes, it has an analog line output.
However, an external dac, even a cheap one will do better (for sure)

Thanks, I cast Tidal wifi plus to Chromecast Audio connected to Topping E30, if I connect WiiM Mini instead of Chromecast audio, is the audio quality superior?

 

[Merifon]

Thanks, I cast Tidal wifi plus to Chromecast Audio connected to Topping E30, if I connect WiiM Mini instead of Chromecast audio, is the audio quality superior?

On toslink, Wiim can stream bit-perfect up to 24/192.

Chromecast is up to 24/96 but i don't know if is bit-perfect nor if 192 is used by Tidal HiFi plus...

Maybe someone did fast switching test among these devices (playing same song, same moment, same service). I doubt that without fast source switching, great differences, if any, could be heard.

 

[Music1969]

Another day without dropouts.

I'm even now on 2.4GHz without problems - the problem with my ASUS RT-AC86U was DNS over TLS (DoT).

None of my other devices at home ever had an issue.

I don't think it's WiiM specifically because other things inside WiiM app stream fine like Qobuz and Deezer.

It's specific to Alexa Casting from Amazon Music app.

Alexa wants to see everything un-encrypted

Finally after 1 week of wanting to return it to Amazon for a refund, I can say my WiiM Mini is ready for the 24/192 casting goodness

 

[Merifon]

I don't think it's WiiM specifically because other things inside WiiM app stream fine like Qobuz and Deezer.

if I remember correctly, I had some rare dropouts during the trial period of Amazon music unlimited, while with Tidal, Qobuz or Deezer I don't remember any.

 

[Music1969]

if I remember correctly, I had some rare dropouts during the trial period of Amazon music unlimited, while with Tidal, Qobuz or Deezer I don't remember any.

Amazon Music inside WiiM HOme app perfectly fine for me the past week.

Just Alexa casting from Amazon Music app was problem, until I disabled DoT.

So I have to assume it is Alexa related.

 

[Brantome]

Another day without dropouts.

I'm even now on 2.4GHz without problems - the problem with my ASUS RT-AC86U was DNS over TLS (DoT).

None of my other devices at home ever had an issue.

I don't think it's WiiM specifically because other things inside WiiM app stream fine like Qobuz and Deezer.

It's specific to Alexa Casting from Amazon Music app.

Alexa wants to see everything un-encrypted

Finally after 1 week of wanting to return it to Amazon for a refund, I can say my WiiM Mini is ready for the 24/192 casting goodness

The pursuit of bit perfect Amazon Music HD has been a long and pretty fruitless task up until now, and I feel it’s finally within grasp.

When Amazon Music HD first came out almost three years ago, I had hoped my Linn MDSM/4 would support it like it does Tidal and Qobuz, but despite Linn’s best efforts, they don’t appear to have got anywhere with Amazon in getting access and support from the Amazon Music dev team. So I tried the Echo Link, but quickly returned it due to it not supporting anything more than 16/48 from its digital output - plus as a UK not USA unit, I don’t think it’s firmware even supported UHD. It also didn’t support BBC Sounds which was salt in the wound after the BBC removing their stations from Tunein UK, so it was returned.

I then got the HEOS Link HS2, but the app is execrable and couldn’t access my personal playlists in Amazon Music (although it is bit perfect and sounds good). Around the same time, my Fire TV Cube started supporting HD and UHD Amazon Music, but it wasn’t bit perfect with my Linn MDSM/4 showing 24/192 no matter what resolution was being played.

The fact that the WiiM mini appears as a bit perfect HD/UHD capable Alexa device, almost a native echo, it seems to tick all the boxes (or will soon) - but it’s been a long journey to get there….

 

[Merifon]

Amazon Music inside WiiM HOme app perfectly fine for me the past week.

Just Alexa casting from Amazon Music app was problem, until I disabled DoT.

So I have to assume it is Alexa related.

yes, i was essentially using amazon cast from the native app

 

[Merifon]

but it wasn’t bit perfect with my Linn MDSM/4 showing 24/192 no matter what resolution was being played.

even with an iphone 6s connected via usb, the dac always showed 192 with the amazon music hd app, when all the other services show the real frequency of the song

 

[Music1969]

even with an iphone 6s connected via usb, the dac always showed 192 with the amazon music hd app, when all the other services show the real frequency of the song

It is because of adaptive rate streaming in Amazon's mobile and desktop apps

Changing sample rates during song could cause lots of issues with DACs etc.

Fixing output rate eliminates any chance of issue

What Bluesound and now WiiM have done is by-pass this adaptive rate and they just stream the FLAC file direct

 

[Merifon]

It is because of adaptive rate streaming in Amazon's mobile and desktop apps

Changing sample rates during song could cause lots of issues with DACs etc.

Fixing output rate eliminates any chance of issue

What Bluesound and now WiiM have done is by-pass this adaptive rate and they just stream the FLAC file direct

I always had the feeling that with that iphone, qobuz was better than amazon but not being able to compare on the fly, I always thought it was suggestion, as it probably was...

 

[Music1969]

I always had the feeling that with that iphone, qobuz was better than amazon but not being able to compare on the fly, I always thought it was suggestion, as it probably was...

The best way to test Amazon HD vs Qobuz from iOS is to only compare a PCM192kHz

At least then it is apples to apples (bit perfect comparison) since there is no resampling.

Should be identical unless different re-masters

As one example, there's multiple versions of Fleetwood Mac 'Rumours' on all the hi-res streaming services.

So if comparing streaming services, you might be comparing completely different re-master and not know.

Different mastering can indeed sound different

 

[absolutezero]

Can anyone using Amazon Music casting to WiiM Mini (not Amazon via WiiM Home) - both lossy and beta lossless - try something for me.

It might help a lot of people.

Can you change your router DNS settings to CloudFlare but using DNS over TLS (DoT). See screenshot below

I've been able to turn this on and off and the dropouts are quite repeatable at my end.

So I think I will tell WiiM Support as it might solve a lot of support tickets but would like someone currently not having issues Amazon casting, to test.

Specifically casting from Amazon Music app - not using WiiM Home app for Amazon Music

You have to select DNS over TLS (DoT) like shown below.

When I simply turn off DoT (I select DNS Privacy Protocol = None) then I have no issues using Cloudflare

So it seems DoT DNS encryption causes my disconnections.

It will be easy for you to turn this on/off

Just do a reboot of the router after you make a change. Maybe reboot WiiM Mini also.


This results in disconnections in Alexa app (WiiM Mini shows as "offline") and you can't cast to it from Amazon Music app, as it doesn't appear:
View attachment 212644


This has no disconnections in Alexa app and works perfectly (no DoT):
View attachment 212645

I'm using 2.4GHz mesh with RT-AC86U (main) and RT-AC68U (node, which is used by WiiM sitting next to it).
Using DoT, never had issues or disconnects.
DoT settings below:

 

[Music1969]

I'm using 2.4GHz mesh with RT-AC86U (main) and RT-AC68U (node, which is used by WiiM sitting next to it).
Using DoT, never had issues or disconnects.
DoT settings below:

Thanks for confirming.

Are you casting from Amazon Music app to WiiM Mini? (not using Amazon Music inside Wiim Home app)

 

[absolutezero]

Thanks for confirming.

Are you casting from Amazon Music app to WiiM Mini? (not using Amazon Music inside Wiim Home app)

Np!
Mostly casting

 

[Merifon]

The best way to test Amazon HD vs Qobuz from iOS is to only compare a PCM192kHz

Yes I did that. Starting with 44.1/16 up to 192/24. This was the cause of the doubts, together with the impossibility of changing sources instantly...
By now, doesn't matter, since I found Tidal use much more pleasant. When Amazon will be fixed, I'll take a further look.

 

[Music1969]

Tidal app is very nice to use and it looks great (the track credits is really awesome) and Tidal Connect works very nice with lots of streamers.

If just wish Tidal would replace the fake hi-res with the original hi-res files !

But let's leave deep MQA discussion for a different thread