Yamaha R-S202 Receiver Review

[Golf]

I sent Amir some dough to buy the R-S202 and measure it, so we would know.

That’s cute.

 

[dr0ss]

So we have don't have to stick to "to my ears" opinions.

I can't have made it much clearer that that was what I was offering, so no need for the snark. Amir hasn't tested the combination of this receiver and these speakers. (I suppose he possibly could, since he had a pair of the speakers at some point.) I've lived with the combination, and recommend against it. Anyone considering the combination has the option of whether to give any credence to my post, or to buy by spec.

 

[Dinesh Menon]

Your description of "bad to my ears" doesn't overwrite the measurements Amir did.

I had the R-S202D, you can see the pics in the Inside Yamaha thread, and listened to it with a pair of KEF LS50 Meta and a pair of ATC SCM19v2. It sounded just like my A-S1200 or the NC252MP or the Fosi V3. Small signal in, large signal out, noise and distortion below audible. As far as i can tell, it had no sound.

I sent Amir some dough to buy the R-S202 and measure it, so we would know. So we have don't have to stick to "to my ears" opinions.

Exactly Sir, that's why we are here on this forum, to get the expert measurements and opinions:
•As just by hEARing we can't judge the dynamics of the sound output of audio systems.
•Similarly we can never just rely on the manufacturer's claims.
•Many higher priced audio equipments tested here were not upto the mark, so
not recommended.
•We can pick our choice from this Recommended List and go through the threads showing FMS' experience with it;
Further discuss and clarify with them.
•Sonic Satisfaction depends on personal preference and room acoustics.

 

[DanielT]

What an odd set of replies. Someone who hasn't tried this combination of devices (R-S202+Wharfedale Diamonds) suggested it, I pointed out that I found that this combination of devices was not good to my ears based on actually owning and using them. This is not something that can be argued with quoting specs, the combination did not work to my ears, that's a fact. And I even qualified my comment - twice!- by pointing out that the only way I could articulate my issue was with "audiopile" terms like "not engaging" or "lifeless", which I was reluctant to do. (I especially do not understand @DanielT's last post, since it is clear what speakers we're talking about, that's the whole subdiscission.) However, to repeat: I was running this Technics on the Wharfedale Diamonds for years, it sounded fine, even room-filling at 2/3 volume. When the Technics died I replaced it with the Yamaha, which never sounded good at any volume. This is in a vacation home, which gets used by other family members who I don't trust to not ruin things, so I leave the Yamaha in place when we're not there, but lately when there I've swapped it out for another vintage receiver, a Beomaster 3000, which also sounds much better than the Yamaha to me. Perhaps this is just the "harmonics", or euphonic distortion, or whatever, but I would not recommend the Yamaha/Wharfedale combination based on actually owning and living with them.

My comment was more of a general nature, ie implications amp power X paired with speakers of Y sensitivity. I didn't comment on what you experienced per se, but I was curious about the sensitivity of your speakers.

I myself have recently made a comparison bonanza, with a number of amps. There has been a hell of a lot of switching in and out. The extremes there were to see if I could drive a small amp into clipping (a 20 watt Rotel, RX -920 AX) together with my 90 dB sensitive speakers. Tested then by switching with a 200 watt power amp (Fostex 600). I don't think I succeeded. Mainly because my speakers have low SPL so they are not suitable for that type of test (they start to distort at higher volumes). Another reason was that I don't want to disturb the neighbors too much.

Those were my subjective listening experiences. They are what they are. Just as yours are what they are. Maybe someone else would have heard differences, if they had been there when I tested? What do I know.

My general conclusion. I hear no difference between my amps when I play them with my 90dB sensitive Tannoys. If I had 85 dB sensitive speakers (3 times more amp power is then needed vs 90 dB sensitive speakers) with super low distortion and good SPL, I might have noticed some differences. Probably, or maybe but I don't know. But, I'm guessing now , with great security in a case with very dynamic music at high volume then I would then hear differences.
That if I then tested 20 vs 200 watt amps.

Edit:
Not to mention if I were to nibble a few dB in amp power in case I had to EQ.

 

[Willem]

I think these are very reasuring measurements. They show that even at the very bottom end of the market Yamaha delivers. In the Netherlands this receiver is sold for 230 euros, with DAB. If radio does not matter to you, or if you just use internet radio (as I do), the comparable AS202 will set you back just 200 euros. Add a Chromecast Audio and a television and use their analog output into this and you are done for remarkably good audio quality for next to nothing. If you want better measurements and digital inputs, go for the heavier Yamaha AS301 (350 euros) or AS501 (420 euros).
As for radio, the Dutch and US situation seems quite different. We still have FM radio stations through the cable network, and many people still listen to those stations (no AM I think ,but I have not tried for ages). However, the cable networks really want to use the bandwidth curently used for FM stations for more TV stations, and broadcast FM is on the way out anyway. High speed internet is the virtually universal alternative here, either from cable companies or from fiber (and at low cost), and FM in the car is rapidly being superceded by the far superior reception quality of DAB+. So in all honesty I think in the Netherlands a receiver such as this does not make much sense unless you have older parents who do not want to change. But how many old people are still digitally incompetent?

 

[ZolaIII]

I think these are very reasuring measurements. They show that even at the very bottom end of the market Yamaha delivers. In the Netherlands this receiver is sold for 230 euros, with DAB. If radio does not matter to you, or if you just use internet radio (as I do), the comparable AS202 will set you back just 200 euros. Add a Chromecast Audio and a television and use their analog output into this and you are done for remarkably good audio quality for next to nothing. If you want better measurements and digital inputs, go for the heavier Yamaha AS301 (350 euros) or AS501 (420 euros).
As for radio, the Dutch and US situation seems quite different. We still have FM radio stations through the cable network, and many people still listen to those stations (no AM I think ,but I have not tried for ages). However, the cable networks really want to use the bandwidth curently used for FM stations for more TV stations, and broadcast FM is on the way out anyway. High speed internet is the virtually universal alternative here, either from cable companies or from fiber (and at low cost), and FM in the car is rapidly being superceded by the far superior reception quality of DAB+. So in all honesty I think in the Netherlands a receiver such as this does not make much sense unless you have older parents who do not want to change. But how many old people are still digitally incompetent?

And then you try to find R-N402D (same power stage, DAB and streaming with nice DAC) or just go with A-S that you can find for cheap and plug in the WiiM Pro streamer.

 

[Willem]

The R-N402 is quite a bit more expensive in the Netherlands, at 600 euros.

 

[Golf]

Besides all the discussed pros and cons, those »Cold War« speaker terminals are definitely unacceptable. As are the rear feet actually, which are nothing else but heavily embossed portions of the unit’s bottom plate, from my point of view. I would happily spend any extra money in order to avoid those »features«.

 

[drmevo]

Another application for this type of receiver that I see quite a bit would be small mom and pop retail shops, dentist offices, etc. Many of them still haven’t moved to Sonos-type systems. Maybe they have a couple sets of speakers wired up already and it’s easier to just drop in another one of these boxes when the old one (which has been dutifully chugging along for 30 years) fails.

I just happened across one of these in the wild, being used in exactly the manner I described above, stuffed in a back closet, in the network rack.

 

[dr0ss]

My comment was more of a general nature, ie implications amp power X paired with speakers of Y sensitivity.

In that case I understand the question, and agree with the consideration (even beyond the question of sensitivity). On paper most non-rubbish amps are capable of delivering amplification that is essentially straight-line excepting levels of noise and distortion that are beyond our ability to hear. However, unlike measuring devices speaker inputs are a complicated mess of inductance, capacitance, and resistance that might interact differently with the output stage of amp 1 vs that of amp 2. That's why it is probably a good idea to consider amps, not in isolation, but in combination with particular speakers.

 

[SuperDerpBro]

Curious what people here think of this vs Fosi V3. I have a v3. I bought one of these Yamahas on a pretty good sale. I forget why I bought it, lol. An impulse buy. Didn't even check for a review here first. Still unopened and well within return window.

Cheers

 

[TheBatsEar]

Curious what people here think of this vs Fosi V3.

I had both. The Fosi is slightly better on paper in terms of SINAD. The Yamaha is slighty better on paper in terms of output power. I don't think either matters much in the real world.

The differences in size and features however are real: remote, several inputs, bass/treble tuning, balance setting, headphone out, tuner. If you need any of this, keep the Yamaha, sell the Fosi.
If you are space constrained or don't use any of the features, send the Yamaha back as long as you can.

 

[SuperDerpBro]

I had both. The Fosi is slightly better on paper in terms of SINAD. The Yamaha is slighty better on paper in terms of output power. I don't think either matters much in the real world.

The differences in size and features however are real: remote, several inputs, bass/treble tuning, balance setting, headphone out, tuner. If you need any of this, keep the Yamaha, sell the Fosi.
If you are space constrained or don't use any of the features, send the Yamaha back as long as you can.

Thanks TheBatsEar

 

[ronniebear]

Looking at the R-S202BL product description at Accessories4Less, I noticed this bold and prominent disclaimer, presumably to deter product returns from consumers.

CAN ONLY USE 8 OHM SPEAKERS. WILL NOT ALLOW A+B TO PLAY TOGETHER UNLESS SPEAKERS ARE 16 OHMS

 

[ZolaIII]

Looking at the product description at Accessories4Less, I noticed this bold disclaimer, presumably to reduce product returns from consumers.

It whose never intended to drive two pairs of speakers and as shown it passes reactive load test for 4 Ohms and even 2 Ohms when there isn't sharp phase shift. You don't want speakers that deep low it's not healthy either for them or amplifier even if it can do it.

 

[ronniebear]

Trying to think if Yamaha is the only Golden Age hi-fi vendor that hasn't repeatedly traded hands, gone defunct or just broken up for parts. Denon and Marantz merged and were bought out. Pioneer came apart, the home audio part merged with Onkyo, that's been passed around and is barely hanging on. What's left of Harman is under Samsung. Sony remains, but Sony Home Audio is barely a going concern. Kenwood merged with JVC but I don't think they've made home stereo gear for decades.

Maybe the secret is also selling pianos? Outboard motors?

Very true. Kenwood and JVC exited the home audio component business about 15 years ago. Under Samsung ownership, the Harman/Kardon brand does not offer any hi-fi receivers or amps. Technics disappeared from the home audio scene for a few years, and its current reincarnation as a high-end audiophile line has involved rebuilding new designs from scratch (parent company Panasonic's financial bread-and-butter seems to be more from microwave ovens).

Yamaha still makes highly-regarded pro audio gear; my church just purchased a brand-new Yamaha soundboard and it performs very well. To my surprise, Yamaha manufactures a variety of musical instruments: flutes, piccolos, clarinets, saxophones, oboes, bassoons, trumpets, french horns, tubas, trombones, violins, violas, cellos.... the list goes on. Given the company's long history of manufacturing all kinds of musical instruments -- not just pianos, perhaps senior management never lost interest in home audio music playback technology.

 

[drmevo]

Very true. Kenwood and JVC exited the home audio component business about 15 years ago. Under Samsung ownership, the Harman/Kardon brand does not offer any hi-fi receivers or amps. Technics disappeared from the home audio scene for a few years, and its current reincarnation as a high-end audiophile line has involved rebuilding new designs from scratch (parent company Panasonic's financial bread-and-butter seems to be more from microwave ovens).

Yamaha still makes highly-regarded pro audio gear; my church just purchased a brand-new Yamaha soundboard and it performs very well. To my surprise, Yamaha manufactures a variety of musical instruments: flutes, piccolos, clarinets, saxophones, oboes, bassoons, trumpets, french horns, tubas, trombones, violins, violas, cellos.... the list goes on. Given the company's long history of manufacturing all kinds of musical instruments -- not just pianos, perhaps senior management never lost interest in home audio music playback technology.

I've played Yamaha drums for 20+ years. They are pretty much the standard for backline drums in pro performance spaces. It's crazy such a massive conglomerate can be good/great at pretty much everything it does, but that seems to be the case with Yamaha.

 

[Pinkynator]

parent company Panasonic's financial bread-and-butter seems to be more from microwave ovens

Funny - I have a Panasonic microwave oven. It works well, but it has a very darkened window and a very weak lightbulb that doesn't even shine directly on the plate, so even when it's pitch black you can't see what's going on in the microwave. Would not recommend.

 

[ZolaIII]

More like video displays and cameras including TV's in case of Panasonic but battery's also.

 

[DanTheMan]

So, based on my needs and this review, I just bought one of these to run pseudiomonitors. Here goes nothing. I got it for $124+TAX locally.