Review and Measurements of Topping D10 DAC

[amirm]

Wow, thank you! Since it seemed a hardware related issue I wasn't faithful of it being fixable through firmware, so good news indeed. I really appreciate your work.

My pleasure. I am also pleasantly surprised that they can mitigate the problem with firmware fix.

 

[Timbo2]

My pleasure. I am also pleasantly surprised that they can mitigate the problem with firmware fix.

Me too. But we should be able to test it after it is available to see if it is actually fixable in firmware.

 

[έχω δίκιο]

My pleasure. I am also pleasantly surprised that they can mitigate the problem with firmware fix.

I've been watching their website and, unfortunately, have not seen the promised firmware fix for the D10 yet. I want to make sure that the problem really is one they can address in firmware before I place my order.

 

[Ron Texas]

I've been watching their website and, unfortunately, have not seen the promised firmware fix for the D10 yet. I want to make sure that the problem really is one they can address in firmware before I place my order.

I am wondering how this will shake out. It could wind up being a more graceful recovery. There are lots of ways to crash a DAC connected to a computer on one side and amplification on the other. I might like my Grace M9xx because it's one box and it has a separate power supply. I bought mine cheap, and it might be pricey at $500

 

[amirm]

I've been watching their website and, unfortunately, have not seen the promised firmware fix for the D10 yet. I want to make sure that the problem really is one they can address in firmware before I place my order.

Let's give them a few more days and I will then check with them again. They may not give me dates in the future if I pester them too quickly.

 

[Krunok]

Hey guys,

If you feed the D10 a DSD signal via usb, then will the D10 convert the DSD signal to PCM and output the digital signal via the SPDIF coaxial and optical? I'm asking this since I see that the SPDIF is limited to PCM (24bits max 44.1kHz - 192kHz).

It will not. Typically DACs don't convert DSD to PCM as it requries some processor power.

 

[Snarfie]

Ok Topping released today their D10 update => http://en.tpdz.net/support.html
Download the right update watch your serial number:

 

[Hemicrusher]

Wonder what changes were made between serial ranges and who has what problems....?

 

[Snarfie]

Wonder what changes were made between serial ranges and who has what problems....?

i Have 1804 serial no problems whatsoever. Only when i have 2 DAC running on 1 laptop both active than when i push my amplifier volume 90% i hear some disturbence in the background. But this has not so much todo with the D10. If i disconnect (USB) one of the 2 DAC's problem solved dead quite. By the way this 2 DAC issiue is also not solved with the new firmware but again it is not a big thing and it effect all DAC's you connect simultanious on any laptop more or less i guess. If I play from my rapsberry PI3 combined with Volumio on the same amplifier where the other DAC is still on it is dead quite on both DAC's so must be a laptop thing. Quite happy with my D10

 

[Hemicrusher]

i Have 1804 serial no problems whatsoever. Only when i have 2 DAC running on 1 laptop both active than when i push my amplifier volume 90% i hear some disturbence in the background. But this has not so much todo with the D10. If i disconnect (USB) one of the 2 DAC's problem solved dead quite. By the way this 2 DAC issiue is also not solved with the new firmware but again it is not a big thing and it effect all DAC's you connect simultanious on any laptop more or less i guess. If I play from my rapsberry PI3 combined with Volumio on the same amplifier where the other DAC is still on it is dead quite on both DAC's so must be a laptop thing. Quite happy with my D10

My serial is 1805 and I have zero issues....

 

[DataX]

I have a 1802 serial and hadn't ran into issues with my D10 resetting or locking up for a while, but figured I would apply the firmware update anyway. I was running revision v6.F2 and it still shows the same after running the update utility and power cycling the unit. I suppose that the firmware was applied as I received a successful message from the update utility, however I can't reliably reproduce the issue so I'm unable to validate that it was indeed fixed.

Usually the issue would occur due to ESD if I accidentally grounded myself to the unit itself, my headphones or sometimes another USB device on my desk.

 

[mejobloggs]

Is there any comparison/review it D10 vs D20? Trying to decide which to buy

 

[bakker_be]

Why would you still buy a D20? Only 16/48 on USB and 24/96 on SPDIF/TOSLINK. I'm not saying being able to convert higher rates makes the D10 SOUND better, but at least it's ready for just about anything you'll be likely to throw at it and it obviously measures correctly.

 

[mejobloggs]

Woops sorry, I meant D30

 

[bakker_be]

So D10 makes the D20 obsolete? I didn't realise that.

Had just assumed D20 was the next model up (don't they go from D10 up to D50?)

They're Chinese, don't expect Western logic D20 was replaced by D30, which is cosmetically similar, to it, goes up to DSD128 and was also measured here as performing well. It is meant as a set with the A30 @amirm recently compared to the Schiitt Magni 3. There's no matching headphone amp for either D10 or D50, although an A50 has been rumoured here ...

 

[DataX]

Woops sorry, I meant D30

@amirm ran a couple tests comparing the D10 vs D30 here. Not a huge difference, so I would say it's more about the features you get with each.

D10: USB in, OPT/COAX out. Supports up to 32/384 PCM, DSD256
D30: USB/OPT/COAX in. Supports up to 24/192 PCM, DSD128

 

[Ron Texas]

The D30 has been around for about 2 years and does have quite a following. It appears to lack some of the stability issues the D10 has (or possibly had since there has been a firmware update.) Try this search: topping d30 site:reddit.com and have fun. Most recent comments say it's better than Schiit, but it should be. There is also a thread on head-fi. Mine is supposed to arrive today.

 

[mejobloggs]

Thanks bakker, data and Ron for clearing up my confusion

Good info

 

[Timbo2]

Great job. I managed to reproduce that and instrument it.

Here is what the O2 is *backfeeding* into its input when you pull out the power supply:

View attachment 14539

The worst case spike is a little hard to see but I put the cursor on it (dashed horizontal lines) and it 16 volts!!! The amount changes from run to run but it is always many volts.

Given this, the fault is in the O2. The output of the DAC should have not transients fed back to it. This is likely feeding into the power supply rails of the Topping D10, causing the processor to get screwed up. Yes, that is a technical term.

I guess Topping could put mitigation for this also but seems to me this is an O2 problem.

Well, bad news for me here. I just flashed the new file on my 1804 serial number unit and the O2 is still able to reset the unit every time I pull the AC adapter. Hopefully it works better for others, especially those who were have complete lockups with the D10.

 

[έχω δίκιο]

Well, bad news for me here. I just flashed the new file on my 1804 serial number unit and the O2 is still able to reset the unit every time I pull the AC adapter. Hopefully it works better for others, especially those who were have complete lockups with the D10.

Thanks for that quick test -- even if the news isn't what we were all hoping for. Maybe it will convert some of those complete lock-ups to resets, which would be an improvement.

The O2 has been criticized for having a fairly low 10KΩ input impedance (set by R14 and R20) rather than the more typical 20KΩ - 50KΩ. Some have recommended changing the resistors to higher values, but that's only going to make a problem like this worse.

Edit: Looking at the schematic for the O2 headphone amplifier, I noticed "Power Switch (do not switch AC)." I wonder if that warning is specifically because of the back-feeding problem that is resetting and locking up D10 DACs.