Review and Measurements of Topping D10 DAC

[Krunok]

audiobill called it right on the D10 problem -- it is sleep-related. But it doesn't appear to be related to power.

If I put my Mac to sleep, the D10 display will initially show three hyphens (replacing the previously shown sampling rate). The hyphens will eventually be replaced by a single, dimly-lit decimal point. And that's all she wrote, sound-wise -- until a USB unplug/replug. Interestingly, querying the USB for a system report with the USB in that state shows that the D10 is still there as far as the system is concerned.

I tried this in both a USB 3.0 powered hub and directly connected to my iMac Pro's USB 3.0 port. The same behavior appeared on both, so it's not due to power going away.

I did some further testing, moving the D10 to my Windows 10 system (a DIY PC I built with a an AMD Ryzen) plugged into a motherboard-supplied USB 3.0 port. I also changed the USB cable at the same time. Sleeping the Windows 10 system results in identical behavior -- three hyphens eventually replaced by a single, dimly-lit decimal point. Waking the Windows 10 PC also does not bring the D10 back to life -- same as the Mac.

It looks like Topping has introduced an ugly bug that they need to fix.

Huh..

I would really ask Topping to send me previous version of the firmware to revert it back.

 

[Snarfie]

I'm running a windows 10 thinkpad X230 laptop with the D10 with none of the above problems (new an old firmware) also did run it for 2 week (old firmware) on a raspberry PI 3B with 0 hick ups. I had some months ago (so before the D10 arrives) a lot of problems with my Allen&Heath Xone 4D software as well midi as the sound cart crahsed repeatedly. Even with the new major spring windows update didn't helped. Than the D10 arrives using wasapi drivers more problems. Now do know some years before i installed a tool called DWS (destroy windows spying) which made the startup way faster an took out all windows telemetry including shittie metro apps but also software that probably is quite usefull/neccecary. So i was happy till i could not download apps provided by Microsoft store. Even windows update i was not sure if it works correctly. But ok the problems where mounting especial on midi an sound card issues massively. Some months ago i decided to do a formate C an install Windows fresh. This made the OS way more stable but i had still some issues till i found out that the docking station causes electric connectivity issues (no connectivity spray did not help much) so i took out the docking station connected my powered USB hub again problems solved (for mine situation). Docking station is sometimes used for CD rips only.

 

[PyramidElectric]

I'm also having problems with the D10 not waking after sleeping my Macbook, Using the 'old' firmware. Not the end of the world but a little annoying.

 

[έχω δίκιο]

Set my iMac Pro to not sleep when the screen is off and got up this morning and saw that the Topping D10 was still working fine, providing further evidence that the problem is related to sleep.

On my Win 10 box, Gigabyte Z170 w/ i5 6600k, putting the comp to sleep shuts off the D10. Acts the same as a shutdown.

Sounds like your PC is shutting of USB port power when it sleeps, which, as you know, means that the D10 powers up anew when the computer wakes up.

I would really ask Topping to send me previous version of the firmware to revert it back.

I send a couple of emails to them yesterday asking for just that. I was hoping to find the firmware in my inbox this morning, but, alas, no.

I'm running a windows 10 thinkpad X230 laptop with the D10 with none of the above problems (new an old firmware) also did run it for 2 week (old firmware) on a raspberry PI 3B with 0 hick ups.

Thanks for providing another data point. As Krunok pointed out, some computers remove power from USB ports when they are sleeping, but my two desktop systems (iMac Pro and PC) I tried it on do not. I would expect a laptop to be much more likely to shut off USB power to keep from draining the battery by powering some USB device. When your Thinkpad X230 goes to sleep, does your Topping D10 shut off (display goes totally blank)? If so, that's probably why you don't see the problem.

I'm also having problems with the D10 not waking after sleeping my Macbook, Using the 'old' firmware. Not the end of the world but a little annoying.

My old firmware may have had this issue, too, and maybe my system didn't go into sleep while it was on there. I've only had the D10 for a few days. If you could email [email protected] and tell them that you are also experiencing problems with the D10 not coming back after sleep, that would be a big help.

 

[έχω δίκιο]

D10 exhibits sleep-of-death behavior on USB power/charging port

I plugged the Topping D10 into a USB charging port (no computer connection). The exact same thing happened: It came up with three full brightness hyphens, which dimmed a few seconds later, and which then went to a single, dimly lit decimal point. So it appears to be some kind of time-out function within the D10 which effectively renders it non-functional until the power is cycled.

If your D10 works fine when your computer sleeps and re-awakens, I bet you don't have it plugged into a powered USB hub!

 

[Krunok]

At the risk of putting this thread actually on topic, Topping quickly responded to my email and sent me the original firmware by email.

I can confirm that the unit can be flashed back AND it now works again with my Nividia Shield TV.

And now back to sexual shenningans...

Which serial is your D10 (1710 or 1801-1805)?

 

[Timbo2]

Which serial is your D10 (1710 or 1801-1805)?

1804 series.

 

[Krunok]

1804 series.

Fred, but in that case you should be able to use Timbo2s previous version of firmware, right?

 

[Timbo2]

Fred, but in that case you should be able to use Timbo2s previous version of firmware, right?

Maybe. It was explicitly labeled 1804. Fred has an 1805. There is a non zero potential of a brick since we don’t if anything is different between the series.

 

[Krunok]

Maybe. It was explicitly labeled 1804. Fred has an 1805. There is a non zero potential of a brick since we don’t if anything is different between the series.

But you both applied the same upgrade, right?

From Topping site:

SN number start with 1710: Download from dropbox

SN number start with 1801 to 1805: Download from dropbox

Or are they specific versions for each serial in that zip file?

 

[Timbo2]

Maybe. It was explicitly labeled 1804. Fred has an 1805. There is a non zero potential of a brick since we don’t if anything is different between the series.

Maybe. It was explicitly labeled 1804. Fred has an 1805. There is a non zero potential of a brick since we don’t if anything is different between the series.

Correct. I’m guessing you know this, but firmware can be pretty unforgiving if even the smallest thing is different.

 

[Krunok]

Or are they specific versions for each serial in that zip file?

I downloaded the firmware and there is a single bin file for 1801-1805. That leads to the conclusion your previous firmware was also probably the same.

 

[Krunok]

Correct. I’m guessing you know this, but firmware can be pretty unforgiving if even the smallest thing is different.

Sure. But, if new version is the same for 1801-1805 serials, assuming that previous version was also the same doesn't look like a stretch to me.

 

[Timbo2]

Sure. But, if new version is the same for 1801-1805 serials, assuming that previous version was also the same doesn't look like a stretch to me.

Me neither, but it’s enough of an issue I’d give Topping a few days before I “punted”...

 

[Hemicrusher]

Did you also "upgrade" the firmware?

I did

That's because USB port of your comp doesn't provide voltage when your comp is put to sleep. That behaviour varies from comp to comp, and even from port to port on the same comp, as there are cases when USB ports still provides voltage when comp is put to sleep.

I know that. I was just saying that the way I have Windows and BIOS power setting set up, it is behaving correctly.

 

[έχω δίκιο]

I downloaded the firmware and there is a single bin file for 1801-1805. That leads to the conclusion your previous firmware was also probably the same.

Hypothetical example firmware:

if serial-number is 1801-1803
__program a time constant of 3.5ms
elseif serial number is 1804
__program a time constant of 2ms
elseif serial number is 1805
__program a time constant of 5ms
else
__display "Err"
endif

The point being that we don't know what changed in the hardware and what changes, if any, they may have made in the firmware to accommodate the hardware changes.

I think that you're right that it will probably work, but when the file is labeled "1804_D10_USB_old.bin," it gives me pause when considering its use in an 1805 series D10.

 

[έχω δίκιο]

I was just saying that the way I have Windows and BIOS power setting set up, it is behaving correctly.

Sadly, I don't know of a way to change the behavior of the iMac Pro USB ports such that they shut off power when the system sleeps. But I appreciate your information and insights.

 

[Krunok]

Hypothetical example firmware:

if serial-number is 1801-1803
__program a time constant of 3.5ms
elseif serial number is 1804
__program a time constant of 2ms
elseif serial number is 1805
__program a time constant of 5ms
else
__display "Err"
endif

The point being that we don't know what changed in the hardware and what changes, if any, they may have made in the firmware to accommodate the hardware changes.

I think that you're right that it will probably work, but when the file is labeled "1804_D10_USB_old.bin," it gives me pause when considering its use in an 1805 series D10.

Sure, as we don't have the info everything is possible. If only you have been so cautious before applying this new version. (a little pun intended!)

 

[Krunok]

I know that. I was just saying that the way I have Windows and BIOS power setting set up, it is behaving correctly.

Try another port, maybe it behaves differently.

 

[Timbo2]

Hypothetical example firmware:

if serial-number is 1801-1803
__program a time constant of 3.5ms
elseif serial number is 1804
__program a time constant of 2ms
elseif serial number is 1805
__program a time constant of 5ms
else
__display "Err"
endif

The point being that we don't know what changed in the hardware and what changes, if any, they may have made in the firmware to accommodate the hardware changes.

I think that you're right that it will probably work, but when the file is labeled "1804_D10_USB_old.bin," it gives me pause when considering its use in an 1805 series D10.

When you get this thing reverted with whatever firmware, I’ll be curious if your problem goes away or you just didn’t notice it with your original firmware.